Afternoon Teaching

0:01 Our father in heaven. Lord, I thank you for Ibar and for this, uh, opportunity to learn together. Lord, I just pray that you would continue, uh, to speak to us today, uh, through Ibar, and we bless you in Yeshua's name I. Amen. Amen. Okay. Sh 12. What I would really like to kinda get across to you is that the information in this presentation, um, is, it spoke to me even growing up Muslim, right? So the information in this, um, I didn't compile this stuff, but it's some of the stuff that we do with our organization, um, growing up a Muslim, um, this was like one of those moments where you, you see something, um,

0:50 and you've known it kind of inherently, but then somebody takes it and puts it all in order, and it's presented in a way that like, makes you go, oh my gosh. No, that's exactly true. I totally get that. Um, so this is the 1 0 1 version of what we do. Uh, we'll go through this, we'll take a break, and then we'll do a little bit of the 1 0 2 and, um, kind of have a q and a time. Sound good? Okay. How many of you have ever read the Quran? Okay, so if you've read the Quran before, you've known that the Quran is only considered the Quran in Arabic. Um, you can read it in another language, but it's considered corrupted if it's not read in the original Arabic. Um,

1:35 it's not a narrative. Uh, it's not, you know, it's, it's told, it's it's poetic in nature, um, and it goes from the longest to the shortest. So, the Birds Khalifa is our backdrop here. And if you were to take the, uh, the Quran and say how many words it is, it's, it's 77,000 words. But compared to that, to the gospels, the gospels are 82,000 words. So if you've never read the Quran before, I want you to consider reading it. It, it's not taboo for a Christian to read it. Um, it's like the gospels, it's, it's, you can digest the gospels in an afternoon. If you put your mind to it. You can read all four gospels in an afternoon. Um, the Quran is similar in that you could read the entire thing in a day, um,

2:23 in a different translation. It's really helpful to know what's in it, um, to know what is in the Quran, what isn't in the Quran. Uh, we'll get into this later, but most Muslims don't know what's in the Quran. They, they are just told what's in it by an imam or somebody in their culture. So compared to the Quran, and then the Gospels, the New Testament is about 184,000 words. Uh, and if we were to compare that to the entire Bible, the entire Bible's about 783,000 words. So it's not very long. The, you know, the Muslim source material, when you compare it to the entire, the, the Quran is, is only 10% of the size. Um,

3:11 in your interactions with Muslims, um, you'll find that they hear things from something called the Hadith. And the Hadith is like all of the writings and sayings of Muhammad compiled over and over and over again. We'll get to that a little bit later too. But people will look at things like the five Pillars of Islam, for instance, and think that it's in, it's in the Quran, it is not in the Quran. Um, the Quran at its core is a, a struggle between monotheism and polytheism. Uh, when you examine the life of Muhammad, you can see this, uh, he's coming into contact. You know, he's, he's a monotheist giving a monotheist message to Polytheists, um, who are his people. It says in, uh, Sur Yunis,

3:57 and they worship besides Allah, things that they harm them, that harm them, not nor profit them. They say, these are inter intercessors with Allah, say, do you inform Allah of, of that, which he knows not in the heaven and on the earth, glorified, exalted as he above all, which they associate as partners. So that's a great view of the, um, the polytheistic background in which Islam was birthed into. The other thing is the central figure is the prophet Mohammed. So there's Allah and the prophet Muhammad. Um, and the imagery here is that God has been writing to mankind throughout the ages. Um, they lay claim to the plot, to the prophets.

4:42 So everything that you would read in the Old Testament, um, and the New Testament is something that they claim as part of their narrative, and that it's been corrupted or co-opted. Um, and that Muhammad is the final prophet, and that Muhammad has the seal of the prophets. He's the one who's the most important prophet, and he's speaking with finality, right? Of course, we know that not to be true, but this is what they believe. Uh, another important aspect of, uh, Islam is the scales of judgment. Um, your good deeds essentially must outweigh your bad deeds. You have to do more good things to get into heaven and less bad things. If you do too many bad things, you're not gonna go to heaven. You're not gonna go to paradise. It's a little bit more complicated than that when you get into more of the

5:30 Islamic source materials. But that is basically it. And then there's another concept called the people of the book, um, seo people of the book. You have no ground to stand on unless you stand fast by the law, the gospel, and the revelation that has come to you from your Lord. So we would look at that and go, great. Why don't we just get Muslims to read the Bible? I believe that stuff. I believe that I don't have a foundation to stand upon, but again, we have to look at it from where they're coming through it. Um, again, Muhammad is adding a completely different appendix to the scripture, right? He's saying that this is, this invalidates anything that doesn't link up with this, right? So when I, when I have a copy of the Quran, if the Bible says that Jesus has been resurrected from the dead,

6:19 then that that's invalidated by the Quran because therefore the Quran says it, it's not the case, right? Um, another part of this is, is that Jews and Christians, um, are only true Jews and Christians if they worship. Aah. And that's another theme you see all throughout the Quran. Anyone who's ever done anything right in the Bible or anyone who's ever done, um, anything good in the, you know, in the, in the, in the TaNaK, in the Brit hut, Shah is a Muslim, and they did it in the name of Aah. We'll get into that a little later as well. The life of Mohammed starts in about five 70 a d. He's born to the Hasim clan of the re tribe. This is one of Mecca's most important families. Uh, Mohammed was orphaned at an early age and brought up under the care of his

7:07 paternal uncle, abbu lib in the city of Mecca. So, Mecca at the time, is the spiritual hub of Arabia. Um, that's where all the idols, idols were made. People come to it, and they make pilgrimages to their gods there. Um, so Mohammad worked mostly as a, as a merchant. He was also a shepherd. He married Kadija, um, when he was 25 years old. Uh, uh, Khadija is 40 years old at the time. Um, and in six 10, ad Mohammed has a, a supernatural experience in a cave where the Quran is given to him. Um, and Angel appears to him and grabs him and hugs him in a bear hug, and he can't breathe. And then the, uh, the angel says to him, recite. And he goes, I can't recite. And this happens, you know, again, the angel says,

7:54 recite. He goes, I don't know how. And the third time the angel says recite, he starts reciting. So he leaves this experience, and he's like, I, I have gone crazy. I've lost my mind. He goes back home, he tells his wife, like, get away from me. I have had this experience, and I don't know if I've been overcome by the, the spirit of a gin and gins in Islam are like, like spirits, right? But they can take human form or the spirit of the prophets. His wife and his uncle, uh, convinced him that he's had a, a supernatural experience and that he should, you know, continue to teach these things, um, in Mecca. So for the next few years, he starts, you know, developing a network within him,

8:43 he's has some daughters. He starts marrying his daughters off to key people. Um, you know, Abu Bacher, uh, his nephew Ali, became a Muslim. Abu Bacher was a wealthy merchant. He's another prominent figure in Islam. His uncle Abbu Talib doesn't become a Muslim, but protects him. And there's another person named Usman. These names are important later. Uh, and Mohammed has enemies. So his, his, um, half Uncle Abola and, uh, another prominent person, abbu Soufan, they're the ones that oppose him. Um, Abala eventually doesn't convert to Islam, but Abu Sufian does. Um, and marries, uh, one of his daughters off to Muhammad,

9:29 Uh, the majority. And people in Mecca hate what Muhammad is saying. He's not a popular dude. He is disrupting our idol trade. I think the parallel is like, when you, when you look in the New Testament, you, you hear about Paul and Paul going into certain cities and, and preaching and then causing an uproar, because he's saying like, this is, these things are not God. This is God. It's a similar situation. Um, but because of the production of his uncle, uh, abbu lib and, um, his wife, he's able to continue. These are influential people, right? But in six 19, uh, ad it's known as the, in Islam, there's this thing called the Year of sorrow. And that's when he loses both of them. So he has no protection. He has to run, um, and flee for his life,

10:15 which he does with Abu Bacher. Uh, this slide shows us how the Arab tribes come to Mecca, and they would make these pilgrimages. Uh, Muhammad would preach to them while they were there, and that's how he met the people of Medina, uh, who wound, who invited him to be their leader. So in 6 22 ad, uh, you can see, Sorry, um, at 6 22 ad, uh, Mohammed and Abu Bacher leave, they have to leave Mecca, and they go to Medina. Um, they make the journey to Medina. And this is known as the year you see in the corner, zero, ah, H zero, ah, h means zero. Al Hira, after Hira Hira, um,

11:02 is the beginning of the Muslim calendar. This is when the whole thing starts. It doesn't start when Mohammad's born. It doesn't start with what happened to him in Mecca. It starts when he leaves Mecca and goes to Medina. Now, While he's in Medina, he marries a lot of women. Like we've all heard about Mohammad's wives, and, uh, he makes a marriage alliance. Um, he meets two of his, uh, main opponents. There are a man named Abbu, Sophia, and Muay. And the time in Medina is really important because it's in Medina. Medina's, a city that has Jews and Arabs in it. And, you know, a lot of people like have a belief in monotheism and a belief in Polytheism,

11:49 and they clash. But when Muhammad gets there, he's the guy that's able to step into both worlds. He's able to say, look, I, I, I come from a polytheistic background, but I'm a monotheist. And they are so impressed with his leadership ability and his ability to communicate the Jews and Arabs that they put him in charge. Um, you can read this. It says, I'm the master of the children of Adam. This is not a boast. I am the first from whom the Earth will split on the day of judgment. This is not a boast. I'm the first interceded and the first one to be granted intercession. This is not a boast. The flag of praise will be in my hand on the day of judgment. This is not a boast, but it's totally a boast.

12:34 Interesting subtext there, guy. But you can see this is where he comes into his own. He comes into his own in Medina, politically. He comes into his own as a spiritual leader. Uh, his following is united behind him in Medina. And this is where he gets power. This is where he becomes prominent. Um, he also becomes the absolute like leader of everything in Medina. Eventually, whoever obeys me, obeys God, and whoever disobeys me, disobeys God, who so obeys the commander, obeys me, and who so Disobeys the commander, obeys me that, again, this is also important because a lot of things in Islam are based on obedience to the things that the prophet has said. Um, there's this concept in Islam called the Saha.

13:19 So the Sahaba is just basically, the best people who ever lived were Mohammed, the generation after him, and the generation after that, after him. And if you are a Muslim, if you want to be a good person, the people you're gonna look at are people from that generation, from those generations. You are going to try and emulate the life of the prophet. You're going to try and emulate the life of Abu Bacher or Abu Tib. Uh, you're gonna try and emulate the life of Ali because there are no better people who ever lived than them. Um, the, the saying in Islam is Muhammad is the best of all creation. Uh, so this is built in, it's baked in the Hadith. This verse is from the, is from the Hadith, the Saha. Um,

14:04 now in 6 24 ad there's a, there's a trade route between Mecca and Medina, and it shows how strategic the cities are to each other. The caravans would travel in these routes in and out of Mecca and into other parts of the country. And Muhammad would start sending, uh, rating parties outta Medina to attack these caravans. And in response, the Mein sent out forces to attack Medina. Um, and these forces fight a series of battles. The first is the Battle of batter. And in the battle of Batter, um, even though the, um, the, the force in Medina was faced by like an overwhelmingly large army, uh, they were soundly defeated by Muhammad. Um, so this is a, another huge deal in the Quran because it says, you know, Allah was protecting him, uh, and Allah,

14:51 the armies of Medina to beat the infidels, the polytheists. The next is the battle hood in 6 25, um, which they lost and pretty badly. So Mohammed and Abu Bacher had to run for their lives. Uh, again, this is another important narrative in the Quran. And then there's the Battle of a Hood. So the Battle of a hood is, is, uh, the, the, it's, it's the battle of the trench, right? The battle of the trench is this is when everyone in Mecca says, we've had enough of Muhammad, we're gonna come for him. So they send the entire Army to Medina, but Mohammed knows that they're coming and they dig a giant trench, and it stifles the, uh, the advance of the armies of Medina,

15:38 um, and causes a gigantic victory to happen for Mo, for mad for Muhammad. Um, and that's where they surrendered him. So everyone in Mecca is like, all right, we give up the Army surrenders. And eventually that turns into, um, him being, uh, able to march on Mecca with 10,000 soldiers and force the city to surrender peacefully. Um, lot of his, lot of people converted to Islam, um, particularly his followers, and he has now consolidated his power. So this is where Mohammad dies. He's essentially ruler over all Saudi Arabia. Um, and this also brings us to the idea of a caliphate.

16:25 How many of you have heard of that, that term, right? So when we think about caliphate in terms, we're like, all right, there's a historical context, and there's a present day context. Present day context could be associated with like Isis or Al-Qaeda or something like that. Or we can back up and we can go to what happened then, uh, in Turkey, for instance, was ruled by Caliphate for like a thousand years. Um, the idea of the caliphate is that it, it just means successor who is the successor. Muhammad did not leave a successor. He left it open. Um, and the idea is that the successor has to be a, um, a descendant of Muhammad from the tribe of Croat. So even if there are only two people left on the Earth,

17:10 that's the one of those two people is going to be the, the Khali. Um, and then there are a lot of people who start to fight back and forth over who is going to take that seat, who's going to, you know, take over the, uh, the, the role of, of leadership. The first is Ali, the son-in-law of Muhammad. Uh, the second was Abu Bacher Mohammad's father-in-law, and, and another guy named Saud Abu Na Baba, um, who was a prominent man in the city of Medina. And Abbu Bacher nominated two people. One of them he suggested for the Khali is a guy named Omar. Um, and this is important because Ali, who would later become a Khali and like was the natural successor to Muhammad, um, was, uh, not invited to this council meeting. So,

17:57 you know how, like you have a meeting at work and you don't want somebody to know what's going on, so you don't send him the email, you don't send him the Evite or something like that. That's what happened here. They did not want him to take that place of prominence. Uh, you know, they had other ideas. Um, and eventually what happens is Abu Bacher gets nominated as Khali, and he accepts it. So the caliphate of Abu Bacher is established, and he becomes the successor to Muhammad. And after all of this happens, all of the tribes, uh, automatically rebel. They're like, we're not gonna pay your taxes anymore. We're gonna raise up our own profits. We don't wanna have anything to do with you. We want to be independent. Um, and that becomes, uh, apostasy in the eyes of Abu, um,

18:46 Bakker. So he starts to send out armies, and the armies start to fight. And slowly but surely, he gains control over all of the Arabian Peninsula. And, um, gets to a point where at one of these battles, they lost 800 soldiers. Now, the Quran at the time was only memorized. It's only something that was committed to memory. And the people who, uh, memorized the Quran were warriors. So when you lose 800 warriors, you're like, there's 800 people who know what this book said. So Abu Bacher, um, gathers all of the manuscripts, uh, throughout Saudi Arabia, and he writes a Quran, and he gives it to Hofsa Mohammad's daughter.

19:32 Um, he's conquered Arabia, and then he starts like a military campaign against assassinated empire. Uh, and slowly but surely, he wages in war against the assassinated Empire and the Byzantine Empire. Um, and he continues that victory, you can see from the slides slowly growing. Um, and he basically wipes out, uh, the assassinated empire and takes over the Byzantine Empire's foothold in Northern Africa. Now, listen, I don't expect you guys to listen to remember all of this. This is just helpful, you know, background information. It gives you like, kind of like a, a way to be able to plant your foot in a discussion with Muslims, but I don't expect you to remember the names in the battles. Um,

20:18 it's important to say that, uh, oh, Abu Bacher dies at that point, and his Mann becomes a successor, and Mann decides that he wants to take the Quran and write one Quran. Cuz by this time, there are other manuscripts, there are other versions of it. Um, but he's actually the one who collates the Quran. So what he does is he sends for all of the copies of the Quran, and then he burns them, and he has one version now. So when you talk to a Muslim, they're like, the Quran has never been altered, um, because we've always had a copy of it. So this is what they're pointing back to. They're pointing back to this idea that there's been a soul text, and it's, everything's been translated from that. And they say, well, we have these texts.

21:04 So that gives us credibility to, to think that this is true. And as, as, as believers, you're like, I'm horrified. Like burning Bibles is bad, right? You know, burning holy text is bad. But in Islam, it's act, they view it as a good thing. They viewed it as it purified the text of any of the corruptions or aberrations or anything that people added after. Um, the idea was that they'd have one centralized version. Uh, and this is recorded in Sa Bahari, uh, as you can see. So then we moved forward with, uh, the life of Othman and Abu Baer's son, and Ali adopted, adopted son, um, Mohammed Ibin, Abu Bacher. They join a mob of people who violently overthrow Oman,

21:51 and they kill him in his palace, and he dies. There's another leadership void in the caliphate. And Ali is appointed Khali and reluctantly becomes its head. Now, immediately LER Ali is opposed by Moia. And, uh, Ali is like the most pious guy, right? Like, he is the most righteous and pious guy. And the way that Moia defeats him is by taking versions, versions of the Quran and writing them on his soldiers. So when they attack the, uh, the Ali soldiers are like, I can't, we can't kill them, because they're, they literally have the Quran written on them, so he has to surrender, right? It's a good trick. Um, and, you know, that causes I to become the head of the Khali.

22:36 Now they negotiate a kind of settlement, right? Uh, so really what it boils down to is Aya and Ali are going to split the Kif, and you're gonna rule part this part of it, and I'm gonna rule that part of it. But, but as long as when both of us die, the next successor is chosen by counsel, and it doesn't automatically go to a relative. That's the compromise that they come to. Now Ali guys are really upset with this, and they turn on him, and they kill him. Um, he dies, and then Maria becomes the Khali. And later his son, Yazi would take over Yazi. Now, um, is control of all the area called the green area, and he slowly starts to expand the empire. So we see it here. Um,

23:25 his son, Abu Malik, uh, Marwan the first, and then Abu Malik, and then Soleman, the magnificent. Um, Islam is spreading all the way up until this point, uh, until the Battle of Constantinople. So Battle of Constantinople, there's this land battle, and then they have a sea battle. And in the sea battle, they're defeated by this thing called Greek fire, right? So they, they, they managed to take like, essentially a Molotov co Molotov cocktails and, uh, burn down the ships of, um, the invading Muslims. And this is where the spread of Islam is stopped, right? In, in Asia, in Central Asia, and, and Europe. It stops here. Uh, then in 1732, there was an assault on France.

24:13 So how many of you have heard of the Battle of Taurus? Okay, so the Battle of Taurus's, a guy named Charles Martel, he ma he rallies the professional army, and the professional army, um, stops the, you know, they win and they stop the spread of Islam in Europe. So this kind of brings us to this, this kind of the birth of the golden age of Islam. Um, Waal is a, is a scholar in Basra, and he is the founder of a guy called the Group called the Lytes. Now, the lytes are these guys, um, who believe that yes, the Quran is like the, the word of ala, but we also believe that all the other things in the world are from Allah too.

24:58 So we're gonna take Greek philosophy and, and, and European philosophy, and we're gonna take, you know, wisdom from different places. And we're gonna, we're gonna incorporate all of these into our belief set and, um, make them a blend of Islam. Uh, this golden Age is also interrupted by another rebellion and another civil war, uh, when a guy named Abu Abbas takes over and he invites the Umay, uh, tribesman to dinner, and he kills them. All right? So, I mean, I mean, I'm not gonna make a Game of Thrones reference, but it's a red wedding. Um, and he takes over the empire. Uh, this golden age is important for us to understand.

25:46 It comes to a head under a guy named, um, Haroon Al Rashied, which means Aaron the rightly guided, and he builds something called the House of Wisdom and Baghdad. The House of Wisdom is really important because it is in the Muslim world where all of the documents are, all of the, the history is recorded, all the genealogy are recorded. Um, the things that Mohammad said, the things that Muhammad did, and not just regarding Islam, but all over the world, these texts are brought in because again, they're practicing a form of Islam that's taking world philosophies and other, uh, influences and bringing them into their idea of, of religion. So essentially, it's just the world's biggest library at the time. Um, it stays that way until the Muslims burn it. Uh,

26:33 the Mongols come and burn it down, but it's important for us to understand the other things that came out of this time period. Do you like ice cream? I can't hear you if you don't like ice cream. I don't, I don't know. Do you, like, do you like guitar music? Like I'm a guitarist? Uh, do you like algebra? No. No. See, nobody likes that. That's why we, that's why we know Islam is not great. They invented algebra. It's still, it's bad. Um, we have to acknowledge that good things came out of Islam, right? So if you talk to a Muslim and they're like, well, you know, nobody ever acknowledges the good things that came out of Islam or came out of the Muslim world. We get ice cream from them, we get guitar music from them. Uh,

27:21 the mathematics that we use to go to space come from this time period. And it's important when you speak to a Muslim to go, you know what, there are some good things that happen. It's important for you to be able to say, Hey, you know, I understand that like, there are valuable contributions that Islam and Muslim culture has made to the world that we live in today. Uh, today we would look at the mite way of thinking as liberal, but not in the American political sense. Uh, it's more like a classical liberalism, uh, except that in Islam, uh, the government has control over religion. It's not like that. Here we believe in separation of church and state. Uh, it's a stream of thought that runs outside of the Islam that's practiced, uh,

28:09 before it. So again, Muhammad is the head of state. If Muhammad says it goes, he's also the head of religion. If Muhammad de Rees it, it's from Allah, right? But they don't believe that by 1813, the Khali alma Moon, he had actually a, he had promoted the lytes. Um, and then a guy named Ibin Hanal is a traditionalist Muslim. And, um, they, they lock him up. He's a traditionalist Muslim who believes that basing your life on the Quran and the Quran alone and the life of the prophet, um, is essential to being a Muslim, and that you shouldn't devote your time to these extra philosophies. So he gets arrested and put in prison. And then, um, all this changes when Muta Waki comes into power,

28:55 and he is considered the last great Khali of the Golden Age. He releases Ibin Hamal, and he imprisons the Muzo. Ien Hamal has a, has a pupil named Imam Bukari. And Iam Bukari starts to, to codify this thing called the Hadith. So let's just take a break from Islamic history here for a minute and start talking about the Hadith. Uh, it's important for us to know, um, how many of you know the difference between a Sunni Muslim and a Shia Muslim? Okay, so a Sunni Muslim, the majority of Muslims in the world are Sunni. Uh, they're the ones that believe that Abu Bacher was the correct successor. Um, and the, the Shia believed that Abu, I'm sorry, uh, Ali, you can tell I had a whole bunch of carbs at lunch,

29:45 and I'm like, I know you're feeling the same way too. Bear with me. Um, Sunni Islam is formed during this year's, and all of this continues until the House of Wisdom is destroyed by the Mongols. Uh, the word hadith is just means saying it's a collection of everything Mohammad said and did, and it's categorized by topic. Uh, Sunni Muslims believe there's like the six main Hadith, Sahi, Bahar, Sahi, Muslim, uh, Sunan, abbu, Jamil Sun are correct. So they believe that these six are the main ones. Now, if we were to look at the, um, five pillars of Islam, like I said earlier,

30:32 that comes out of the Hadith. So what are the five pillars of Islam? Well, first, this is Shahada. The Shahada says, I bear witness that there is no deity, but God, and I bear witness that Muhammad is the messenger of God. If you were to want to become a Muslim, you would say this three times, and that's how you become a Muslim. So when the World Cup was going on in Qatar, there were QR codes that would say, like, that would lead you to a location where there are a bunch of, uh, you know, um, uh, imams and, and Muslim teachers and scholars. And you would say the shahada in front of them three times, and you would become a Muslim, or you would say Beetlejuice three times, and he would come outta nowhere. I'm psyched for the sequel.

31:20 Uh, there's the ot, there are the prayers, uh, five times a day, Dawn, noon, uh, mid-afternoon, sunset and midnight. There's this idea of zakat. So zat, it's really interesting because in Muslim countries, the cut is collected as a tax. It's 2.5% of your entire income. Uh, so if you were in Saudi Arabia, the government would just take it and then do with it what they thought was charitable. It would go to like taking care of people who were old or sick or, you know, aiding other, uh, Muslim co, uh, causes. In a country like Turkey, it's not collected. So you have to figure out what to do with that 2.5% yourself. Um, during the earthquake in Turkey, for instance, there were three or four main Muslim charities, uh, that were doing, uh,

32:07 relief work, and a lot of people gave to them, right? I'm gonna take my zakat and I'm going to give it to this organization or this organization, um, because that's what I feel like I'm supposed to do with this commandment that Allah gave us. Um, there's fasting, of course, they fast between Ramadan from Sun sunrise to sunset, uh, and then there's the Hodge. So the Hodge is something that every Muslim has to do at least once in their life. My father went on the Hodge. My father considered like he reached a phase in his life where I have to go to Mecca before I'm too old to go. So you go to, you go to Saudi Arabia during the season, you wear a white robe, and you essentially walk to, uh, the center of Mecca to this thing in the middle called the Kaba. And, you know,

32:55 you touch the Kaba. Everyone inside the Kaba is like, there are a lot of, um, Muslim stories that are associated with the things that happened inside the Kaba. Uh, for instance, it was built by, um, Ishmael and Abraham, uh, the stone that Muhammad stood on as he watched the destruction of Sodom. And Gomorrah has his footprints in it. Uh, you know, it's an important artifact. It's important place in with important artifacts in Islam. Now, again, we were talking about the Hadith. So if we were to take the Quran and the Gospels and the New Testament in the entire Bible, and we compared them to one,

33:41 one another in terms of size, this is what the six Hadith looked like. That's 4 million words. It's just six volumes. So again, you can read the Quran, you can read the gospels, you can read the New Testament. It might take you a year to get through the whole Bible. If you read it casually, if you really wanted to read it, it would take you a while. That's a lot of words. But in terms of the Hadith, think about how hard it is to be able to process that much information to know where it was or what it said, or even what it meant. Now, if we were to take everything that was ever said about Muhammad, right? So these are just the six main Hadith, but there are many, many more Hadith. There are many, many more things that were said and written about Muhammad.

34:29 How big would they be? That's how big 78 million words. They can't even all be verified. So how would you know what was true and what wasn't? I think a lot of us would be like, okay, I read like, I don't know, I read like, maybe if you read, if you were a serious Muslim and you read all six Hadith, you could never, you could never know this. It's unknowable. It's unknowable to know everything that's written down. Now, it presents a pro a problem for Muslims because they don't know if a Hadith is accurate or not. Um, and you know, they don't know if something being introduced to them is valid or not. So what's there's, there's a way that they process information. Um,

35:18 and that's through scholars. So the Hadid says, my Umma will never agree upon an error. So the umma is, is this idea that the, the community, which is the word for Uma, uh, will never agree upon an error. The saying in the, in the general Muscu Muslim community means Ala will always guide the community on a right path. Uh, he also says the scholars, um, ALA's hand is over the group, and whoever diverges from them diverges from hell. He's also saying that, um, scholars and the community are infallible. So it's important to know, right? But as it shakes out in Islam, you don't really see that. I'm gonna play this clip for you real quick. I mean,

36:03 essentially what he's saying is, in theory, uh, the average Muslim is not qualified to go back to the Quran, that it needs the interpretation of a scholar or a tutor just like a doctor needs, um, you know, to diagnose an illness. So if I have cancer, I'm not going to go to any of you unless you're an oncologist. If I have a broken leg, I need to go to the hospital. I don't need you to tell me how to fix my leg. So there's an importance that these people place on scholarship. Scholarship is huge in Islam. When you talk to a Muslim and they say stuff like, Hey, uh, you know, the, the, uh, if you go to a Muslim and you say, look, the New Testament is accurate,

36:52 and, and Jesus is the Messiah, right? Uh, and I have heard that the Quran says, you know, X about a topic, right? Or X about Muhammad. Um, and this is what I think it means. They'll say, well, are you a scholar? You automatically get discounted because you haven't dedicated your entire life to study. Now, in the view of the average, like Muslim, this is, this is going to shake out in the view of the average Muslim. This is something that's, um, going to have a profound effect on the way that you disseminate information and the way that you process things. So in order to do that, we, we, in, we kind of invented a character. Her name is Hofsa. So Hofsa is a good girl.

37:39 She lives in Seattle. Um, she's, she's not real, but, but for the, the sake of, you know, argument, she's your average Muslim girl. Now, this orange ring around her is her worldview and the way that she understands the world around her. And that is informed by several different sources. Uh, first her conscience, because we're all made in the image of God, and we're all given a conscience by God. Uh, there's foreign culture and there's Muslim culture, and then there's the Islamic source material. But that stuff doesn't come to her directly. She doesn't sit there and say like, okay, you know, I'm gonna read the Islamic source material and allow that to affect my view on those other things. A lot of it's gonna be filtered by say, her mom and her dad.

38:25 And there's this other web of people who are like her grandparents, uh, the IAM of the local mosque, uh, she might never actually talk to. Um, and there's her serious Muslim aunt, and then there's maybe her more, you know, feminist Muslim aunt. And then this guy over here wearing the black turban is like her crazy Uncle Hafiz, right? Like, he got some crazy views. And, you know, everybody loves him because he makes kebabs. And my boss put this in the presentation, yes, I'm an Eagles fan. I know it's a rough crowd. Here. It's me in 1997 as part of this, uh, this, this, this web of, uh, information being disseminated over there,

39:13 smoking my cigarette. And then there's a wider web. There are Muslim teachers and, and there are family friends. Um, there's the Sheik and the Shake is like the most important person in the community. Uh, the Imam will talk to the Sheik, but uh, you know, her dad, maybe once in a while we'll talk to him, but, but not really, you know, any kind of in depth relationship. Um, so these things are all informed by Muslim culture, Islamic source material, and foreign culture. They all have an influence. Uh, and again, collectively, the same thing applies to the community. The community is made in the image of God. The community has a conscience,

39:59 and they hear the things that are coming at them, and they filter through that same way. Now, what hso will learn about Islam will break down into four categories, uh, categories. There's inspirational and fake. So for instance, Mohammed brought his Jewish neighbor food every day, right? So it's nice, but it's fake. Uh, there's inspirational and authentic Muhammad, uh, went to got Mecca to surrender without a fight. Um, that's true and inspiring. There's non inspirational and authentic, which means it's boring. Uh, so for instance, Muhammad always entered the bathroom with his left foot, right? It's not inspirational, but it's authentic. It's something he did.

40:45 And then there's troubling and authentic, like Muhammad saying, there are more women in hell than men. So if you're a Muslim, you're going to look at these things and you're going to say, well, these are the four categories that they break down into. Um, something that is inspirational and authentic is the, that comes from the source material, will go out to the scholars and then run through the filter of this thing called proper Hadith Science. Uh, this, this meaning this means that, um, what is said, uh, is that the, the narrators are reliable and it's backed up elsewhere, uh, and it has good history. So they take these things and they filter that information, and they let the good things go, uh, and they filter out what's dubious.

41:32 And then from them, these things get passed on to more scholars and even more scholars. And then they, they go out to this, uh, group of guys who are like that shake I told you about the guy in the red shirt in the one slide. Um, this passes to people who read the scholars, and they have a filter that says, uh, you know, this is Islam according to the scholars. So they watch the YouTube channels, um, they have read the Hadith, they might read some of the Quran, but they take it very seriously. I mean, seriously enough to go to every dinner that we host and say, well, you know, we have to, uh, back up what the scholars say. So if you ask them about what's in the Quran, you're not going to get their opinion. They're going to get an opinion that they agree with,

42:17 and they filter all of these things through. They read the books and the commentaries, and they're dialed in and, and they say, this is what the scholars do disagree with, and this is what they don't agree with. And all of that filters through the community, through different relationships, and it comes down to hofsa through many different angles. Um, so let's take one this idea that Hamm was a good neighbor. Uh, this guy has a filter. Islam, according to the Uma. So again, Uma's community Muhammad says, ma, Uma will never disagree upon an error. Therefore, if everyone, uh, I see someone doing something in my community and everyone is doing it, that makes it okay. Right? So

43:05 Muhammad liked to, uh, sit with poor people, okay? It's not in the Quran, it's not in Hadith. It might be in the Hadith. We don't know if it's in Hadith. Uh, if we go to a scholar, a scholar might be able to back up this point or this point, but I see everyone in the community going to these poor people and taking care of them. So that makes it okay. Um, you know, or if being hospitable, for instance, right? Like, I opened my home to people and I want them to come in and I want to be hospitable. Well, doesn't say anywhere that Mohammed was hospitable. It's not in the Quran that you have to be hospitable. It's just something that everyone's doing, and that's what makes it, okay.

43:51 So they take things like this and they filter them through, and they go out to the entire community, and they filter on down to hofsa. Same way with things that are boring and inauthentic. They go out, they filter through the community, and they go down to Hofsa in the same way with things that are troubling and authentic. And then we get back to the scholars who are taking this stuff, and they're filtering it through the proper haddi science. He takes it all of the different Hadith, and he filters them out. He throws out the inauthentic hadith, and, and he comes to something that makes him uncomfortable, right? So let's go back to that idea that there are more women in hell than men according to Muhammad. Well, he doesn't really want to deal with that. I know, I see all you women shaking your head. It's not true, guys.

44:42 Um, so he sets it aside, he doesn't wanna deal with it. He turns the page on it. He, he doesn't pass it on, and other scholars read it, and they read on right past the, and then the, the community, it doesn't go through the community. Um, and then it comes to two people who might read it and say, well, wait a minute. I agree with that one being the shake, right? The Sheik might get to it, and he might be like, well, I believe it, or I don't believe it. It depends on the, the interpretation of the, the specific way Islam is practiced in that community. Uh, so if it's not helpful, I'll ignore it. If I believe it, I'll pass it on. And then there's Hoffa's crazy uncle who's like, HOFSA, guess what? There are more, uh, woman in hell than men. And she's like, that's not helpful,

45:28 uncle. So she knows this stuff is out there, and she knows it's in different packaging. The problem in Islam is that when you have different scholars taking different things out from the source material, they, they, they look at each other and they have different forms of school. They have different schools of thought, and what they'll say to say like, the, the scholar that believes that there are more women in hell, right? Than men. Um, and the scholar who doesn't believe that they'll look at each other and say, well, that's not real Islam. And they'll appeal to other scholars, uh, and other scholars, uh, who disagree with them and so on and so forth. And the argument devolves into this idea that those aren't real scholars, and that's not real Islam that sound familiar guys as Messianics.

46:16 Do we do that as messianics? Do we do that when we look at like, you know, different streams of Orthodox thought and different streams of Jewish thought, and then different streams of church thought? And we look at them and we go, well, that's not, that's not biblical, or, or that's, that's not Jewish, right? We do that. So it it's not just in her community, it's everywhere. She has all this stuff coming to her from different sources, and she's running it through a different filter. So this is what her parents tell her. Mohammed is the best of creation. He's the best person who ever lived, and all of this is coming to her from different sources. She's not defy defining this by pure Islamic reasoning as a mixture of things. There, there's, there's the Islamic source material,

47:03 there's Muslim culture, there's her favorite movies. Uh, there's her conscience, and she runs all of them through a filter and takes all of the, the mixture of source and runs them through her filter, and comes up with this idea that Muhammad looks like this. He's a nice guy. He's the best of all creation. But as we can see, that's probably more like Mohammed, that's the Muhammad that we know, right? The Muhammad, that when you step outside of Islam and you don't glorify him, you see all of the troubling stuff. There's some good stuff in there, but there's some bad stuff in there. And the, the, the two versions are, are, they don't compute,

47:50 they don't align. So for us as followers of, of Yeshua who are going to the, the source materials, you know, we're gonna look at this version of Muhammad on the left and critique it, but she's not gonna view it as an attack on just her or her idea of what this character looks like. She's gonna look at it as an attack on her family. She's gonna look at it as an attack on her entire support system. So what's a better way to do this? Um, a better way to do this without an extensive critique of the, uh, Quran, um, or the Hadith, is to say, Hey, HAA,

48:35 your parents are image bearers of God. Listen, the best things in the world exist in them, but they're also sinners. Also. The worst things exist in them, right? Because they're sinners. Like you love your mom, uh, because she's kind to you, you love your parents and your uncles and your aunts, they're kind to you. Uh, but you also know that they gossip, right? You also know that, you know, they talk bad about each other behind each other's back. Um, she already knows this, and this is not information to her. Uh, and you start relaying to her that, you know, your whole community is full of people who are made in the image of God. And just like your parents, they have the best things in creation in them, and the worst things in creation in them because they're sinners. And it's also something to tell her that, Hey, listen, you know,

49:22 maybe this group of image bearers is not the best place to get all of your information from. Maybe it's important to go back to different things like the source material. And then you make an appeal to her conscience, right? So, h hofsa again, is the girl that we're trying to reach with the Lord. And you're saying, you know, look at all of these things and the way that they operate. How do you really feel about it in terms of, you know, what's, what you're told and what you think? Now, it's important to realize that as these things filter through, like different elements of foreign culture and Islamic source material and Muslim culture and her conscience, you know, we will look at it and we'll say, well, what would we do in this situation? Like, we would go to the Bible, right?

50:09 We would go to the Bible, we would look at in the Bible, and we'd see what the Bible says. And we think that the, the Muslim community is doing the same because we think that they're going to the Quran and then the, the, the, the Una the Hadith, and then we think that they're going to the scholars, and then we think that they're, all of that is going out to the Oma, right? Like, we think that's how it, it works. So if you were to tell me something about Yeshua, um, I would go to the Bible and then I would go into a commentary, and then I would see what, like, I don't know, who's your favorite preacher, right? What they had to say about it. And then I would talk to people in the community, but for them, it's the opposite. It starts with the community. It starts with the Oma, and then it goes to the scholars,

50:56 and then it goes through the Hadith, and then it goes through the Quran. And all of this, uh, on a practical level, um, passes through and their answers are like, well, when you say, hey, the Quran says Jesus, we could say the Quran says Jesus is the Messiah, right? And she would say, well, I'm not a scholar. You can't talk, you know, you can talk to the Imam about that. Or we could say, the Quran affirms the Bible, and she might say, well, maybe, uh, maybe one day I will actually read the Quran when I learn Arabic, and when I learn Arabic and I read the Quran, then maybe I'll get to the Bible, uh, maybe in like 50 years when I finally have time. Or we could go to the Hadith and say that the Islamic source materials are

51:41 detrimental to women. And you know, she would say, well, now you sound like my uncle, right? The one who's walking around saying, there are more women in hell than men. My dad loves my mom and I love my mom, and my relatives love my mom. I'm not a scholar. I've never read that. Or we could talk about it like in the present day, right? So let's talk about terrorism for a second. And if you're gonna talk to Hofsa about terrorism, you're gonna say, look, HOFSA terrorists are doing horrible things in the name of Islam. And she's gonna say, well, I don't know any terrorists. I mean, my people are nice. You should come to dinner on, you know, on Saturday and, and, you know, eat my, eat my uncle's kebabs. He's kind of crazy, but he makes pretty killer kebab. Um, but on a leadership level, things get to li get a little bit more impactful,

52:30 right? So if you were to say to her, no one in the Muslim world can stop the terrorists that might start to bother her. Or you could say, Muslim countries have corrupt governments. Well, that one might hit a little closer to home because she might have friends in those countries, uh, who are struggling under those corrupt governments. Um, once you get into the community, you know, you could hit a little bit closer to home. Like, Hey, why does everyone gossip? Why do your parents gossip? Why do, why do, why do my uncles gossip? Why does everyone gossip? Why are people so judgmental? I mean, these are questions we ask as Christians, right? Why do people gossip? Why are they talking about me? Why are they judging me? How do I keep my own culture and fit in with the world? Again,

53:17 that's something that resonates with a Christian audience. Why can't I talk to anyone about mental health? I told you earlier today, we went to, uh, uh, an Islamic, uh, a Muslim comedy show, and the running joke was, I'm trying to get my mom to go to therapy with me. And she thinks I'm like betraying my entire family, right? Um, when I, you know, after I became a believer, I sa same thing happened to me. I started asking my mom, Hey, my therapist says we had a toxic relationship here for a little while. And she's like, why are you telling the world about my story? Right? Like, why are you telling the world about us? Not, oh, I'm sorry you feel that way. Maybe we should go talk to the therapist together, right? It's a very close society. Uh,

54:06 how can I know if I've done enough good deeds? Why can't I be myself? How do I know who's telling the truth? So what we're seeing is that hoff's, uh, authority for what she believes is arbitrary, right? She, she's looked at this, the, the scholars, and she's heard what the scholars have said, filtered through the community. Uh, she might sort of know what the Hadith says. She might sort of know what the Quran is. Um, but a lot of these things come through her from her family members. So let's just say her aunt and her uncle tell her that Mohammad is the best of all creation. She says, uh, yes, you know, I believe that,

54:51 but she doesn't believe everything they say like, oh, Mohammad says, you must enter the bathroom with your left foot first. Well, that's silly. I don't believe that. You know, I'm not gonna put that in the practice in my life. But then they tell her the Bible has been changed by the Christians and the Jews, and she'll agree with that. But in reality, she has no reason to agree with it because she doesn't know whether it's true or not. The people she's getting her information from are inconsistent. So she herself has developed the same inconsistency. Yeshua addresses this problem directly, but you are not to be called rabbi teacher, for you have one teacher and you are all brothers. Call no man on, on your father,

55:40 call no man your father on earth, for you have one father who was in heaven, neither be called in structures. So for you have one RAC instructor, the Messiah. So the point is, we are expected to have access to God ourselves. We're expected as believers, to not have intermediaries, to not have to go to my uncle to tell me what's in the Quran, right? Or to not have to go to my uncle, I'm sorry, to not have to go to my uncle to tell me what's in the Bible, to not have to go to a family member or a friend and have them explain what's in it or what God thinks about something. Because I can go there myself if I have a relationship with Yeshua. So let's say HSA gets saved, right? Her worldview is shifting and changing.

56:27 She becomes a believer, and these things continue to, to influence her. There's conscience and there's culture, and there's scripture, and it's coming through a different web now. So yes, her parents are there, but there are different people now. There's that, there's that guy at church, there's the pastor, there's her friend who, um, she's really close with who led her to the Lord. There's her brothers, sisters at the church. There's also, you know, uh, some guy from seminary, she's getting information from all of them. And look, she still has to deal with some of these things. She's still gonna have to run them through a filter, right? So there's good things from culture, there's bad things from culture, there's false religion. Um, but there's also biblical Christianity.

57:12 We know that she has something to base her life around, right? We know that she has something that she can orient herself towards. And all of this stuff is going to come from everywhere. Good teaching, some errant teaching, and it's all gonna filter down to her. But now she has a new filter. All scriptures breathe out by God. And profitable for teaching says in second Timothy three 16 for correction and for training and righteousness that the man of God can be complete equipped for every good work. That word complete means everything we need to know about God and how to obey him is in the Bible. And all of these things filter through her life down to her, just like it did in Islam. But now she's a Christian. And what we have here is a developing view of God.

58:00 Hoff's view of God slowly comes into play Again, excuse the cross. If any of you are offended by it. I work with a Christian organization, um, and what we have here is Hoff's view of God and God's self revelation. So listen, HOFSA doesn't know everything about God, right? Do any of you, no. God will slowly reveal himself to, to her. He will slowly take stuff from that left side and move it over to the right side, and she will grow in spirit. She'll grow in knowledge she'll grow in her ability to be a disciple. And listen, that's the best thing we can hope for, right? If we were to lead Muslims to the Lord tomorrow, this is our end game.

58:47 We want we, God's revelation as he reveals himself to that person, and for a developing view of God to grow. So this concludes this part of this session. Um, for the next part, I'll kind of skip around on the next one. Um, but, uh, we'll talk about some ways to kind of engage Muslims in your community and some strategies. Let's take like a, like a 10 minute break and come back. So let's talk for a minute about how to meet Muslims. Um, how many of you know a Muslim? How many of you work with a Muslim?

59:36 How many of you are like, you know, like a parent and your kids play with a Muslim kid? Okay? Um, these are all great ways for us to be able to connect with our Muslim neighbors. Uh, what I wanna go over is how to have meaningful conversations with Muslims, how to meet them and then welcome them into your body of faith, the life of the church. So let's just say this is your neighborhood. And in your neighborhood there are Muslims and some of these Muslims, you know, they live in different neighborhoods. I was driving around with Ari today and he said like, like the Muslims and the Jews live like right next to each other in Dallas.

1:00:22 The majority of them, um, I looked it up. There are about 30,000 Muslims here in the Dallas area. Uh, so let's just say they live in these areas and they are, I mean, this is Honey Badger Avenue Reform Church, but let's just call it, um, I don't know, like Beth. Beth, uh, Beth. Beth. What's that? Yeah. Beth Gateway. That's it. There you go. Thanks. That's a good local reference. I like it. Um, now these are all the people who are involved in, uh, Beth Gateway. Um, you know, they're normal people. And now Hofsa is there too, right?

1:01:10 She goes to Beth Gateway. Um, it's important to understand as you engage the Muslim community around you, that you think in three different ways. The first one is the global, like state of Islam, Muslims all over the world. Uh, then there's, you know, Muslims around you, and then there are local, uh, individuals, and you gotta have the right mindset. So, um, Psalm 72 verse, uh, eight through 11 says, may he have dominion from sea to sea, uh, from the river and from the river to the ends of the earth. Many desert tribes bow down before him and his enemies lick the dust. May the kings of Tarif and the tarif and the coastlands render him tribute. May the kings of Shiba, uh, bring gifts.

1:01:57 May all the kings fall down before him and all nations serve him. So where's Shiba in the Bible? Who knows? That's Saudi Arabia, and that's Yemen. And tar is Tarsus Turkey. That's like, like an hour and a half from where I was born. So the big picture here is that we want to have a positive outlook on the Middle East. Not that, you know, God's gonna come and, you know, judge it with burning fire, but rather it's something that's prescribed in scripture that one day it will be a blessing, right? One day this area will be redeemed and these kings will come and they'll pay homage to the Lord of hosts. It's not something that he puts under his, like, like some, like a foot he puts on a neck.

1:02:42 It's something that he's going to redeem. Um, locally, it's important for us to understand and have the right mindset. Uh, it says in Acts 18, nine through 10, and the Lord said the Paul, one night in division, don't be afraid, but go on speaking and do not be silent for I am with you, and no one will attack you or harm you for, I have many in the city who are my people. So it's important for us to remember that, you know, listen, there are Muslims over there, right? There are Muslims in the Middle East. And in order for me to engage one, I have to hop on a plane. I have to go over there to talk to the Muslims because they're here. There are 30,000 of them here. Ari and I went into Costco the first day I was here, and there were plenty of Muslims.

1:03:27 And then we went to a Humani coffee shop that had the most delicious, delicious latte I have had in a long time. There are Muslim, everyone working in the coffee shop was Muslim. Most of the people who were sitting in the coffee shop were Muslim. And we have to believe that when we're put here, you know, for such a time as this to bring in the harvest for the Lord, that we're here for a reason and we have to have the right mindset as individuals. So do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers for thereby, some have entertained angels unaware. Um, this is a great scripture, uh, because I have found that where Muslims will not necessarily go to your, go to your congregation. They might come to your house, they will eat, they'll meet you somewhere to eat. Um, you showing hospitality to them,

1:04:16 I mean, obviously we saw what it did for Abraham and how it it gained him, uh, uh, the Lord's approval before the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. For us, it's the same, right? If we open our doors to people, we are being a blessing to the Lord, and we're opening our conduit between us and heaven. So there are three different types of opportunities. There's, there's intentional opportunities, there's things that we plan. There's natural opportunities, things that we don't plan, and then there are supernatural opportunities. So some intentional, some forms of intentional opportunities are religious gatherings, uh, cultural events. Um, you know, there are other places, uh, so I, I talked earlier about the con the comedy show.

1:05:04 So we went that I would consider that a cultural event, um, that, uh, ein that I went to at the Muslim Students Association. That is, uh, is a religious event, right? You know, if you wanna go to a, to a dinner over Ramadan, um, I find that most Muslim communities will invite you in. If you want to go to a, you know, like a, like a, like a gathering of Muslims at a student association, most Muslims will invite you in. It's not like they're gonna go get out because you're a Muslim. Um, same thing with cultural events. I just went to this great cultural, like night of culture, uh, like night of Anatolian culture, um, in, in Seattle with a whole bunch of Turks.

1:05:52 And I expected it to be all Turks. I expected it to be, you know, like, all right, I'm, I'm gonna go back into the environment that I was talking about earlier. I'm gonna not be Turkish enough, right? But that's my thing. That's what I have to deal with. But when I got there, I was stunned because most of the people there were Christians, they were all invited by this one guy who was a believer. And this whole church like sent out their leadership and different people. And these, these, like, these Turks were so happy that they were there and they were like giving them, they were giving us seats in the front. They wanted us to experience their culture. They wanted us to taste their food. They wanted to spend time with us. And I find that that's probably more what's gonna happen than you being kicked

1:06:38 out. So you don't have anything to be afraid of. And third places are like, you know, when you run to the people in the supermarket or, uh, workplaces or something like that. Okay? This is my boss's story, that's kind of a cool story. Um, he went to the Muslim Students Association at the u uh, university of Washington and wound up pretty much inviting the entire students association to his church. And they came, they went out to eat after, and they all sat there, and then they wound up planning. Um, he, he said, you know, wouldn't it be great if we all got together for a dinner? And what his friend in the headscarf in the front here thought was, wouldn't it be great if, um,

1:07:26 if we all had a dinner for, for, for Ramadan? So that's how we started doing what we're doing. It was an accident. It was actually the suggestion of a Muslim. She wanted to get together with Christians. She wanted to have this interfaith dialogue. She wanted it to be like, oh, you know, we want to, we want to talk to Christians. We wanna spend time with Christians, and we are not afraid of Christians spending time with us. One thing, um, my boss James, is really good at, uh, is kind of inserting himself into culture. I'm like, how many of you have watched Star Wars? I'm like, the Padawan, right? Like, he's the Jedi of this stuff. My man got, he got himself put on the board of the Seattle, uh, Arab Festival.

1:08:15 So every Seattle Arab festival is held like in the center of Seattle. And, you know, people from all over the Seattle Arabs come and they, you know, they have their culture and they have dances, and they, they, they give away prizes and everything. But this year, because James is a part of their, their board, they decided because of James that he wanted, they wanted to have a Christmas party for the Arabs that are Christians, because they didn't wanna exclude them. So, yeah, I know this is a Messianic synagogue. Santa's gonna run some people wrong. It's the principle of the thing, right? He put himself in a position where he could be, uh, utilized, uh, and a resource to this group of people that he wouldn't normally associate

1:09:05 yourself with. And they didn't influence him. He influenced them. That's really powerful. It's something we can all think about. Um, I went, and here I am at the table, uh, with my son Jack, um, because there was candy at the table, and that's why Jack was there. Uh, and we're, you know, we used, they let us set up a banner, um, and explain who we were and, and, and where we were doing outreach. That thing on the table is a map of all of the different places where, uh, you know, Arabs are, are, um, I can't read that at the top. I don't have my glasses on. It's a d it's a map of all of the places that, that, you know, Arabs are being persecuted throughout the Middle East. And, and, uh,

1:09:51 uh, another map of like Christian areas in the Middle East. Um, so let's go to third places. This is Uncle Hafiz kebabs, which is right next to the halal meat market. Now there's a coffee shop there, and the Muslims will sit there, right? The kebab shop. Uh, you're laughing over there. You guys are cracking up. I used pets. What's that used? Pet pets used pets. Yes, they're rescue dogs. Okay? These, these are places where I know it's like, I hope that's not in the kebab.

1:10:38 That's horrible. There are hookah lounges. Um, you know, these places are scattered throughout the city. And when you're in these places and you run into a Muslim, you know, be your average like person when they walk into a coffee shop, right? Or they walk into, uh, you know, one of these kind of neutral sites, um, and they see a Muslim in like complete head covering, right? Uh, a Muslim woman, you might go, she's Muslim. I don't have anything in common with her. I don't know how to connect with her. So I'm not going to try because I'm frankly at a loss for words. But this kind of stuff works like, Hey, how long have you been in Seattle?

1:11:26 Or How long have you been in DA Dallas? Where were you before that? Uh, are you working here? Do you study here? Um, who do you work for? What's your major? Uh, you know, where's your accent from? We run into this one a lot, right? Like, you know, you sound like you have an Arab accent, or you sound like you have a, uh, um, you know, you sound like you're from like closer to Israel or something like that. Or I hear them speaking Turkish, right? All the time. Um, would you like a cookie? Thanks, James. Um, actually we meet in coffee shops and we offer to buy people stuff all the time, right? Like, you're talking to somebody and, oh, hey, I'm buying a cookie. You want one? You know, sit down with me. Let's talk, let's have some coffee.

1:12:12 Uh, can you watch my stuff for a second? Do you know the wifi, right? Do you need a, an outlet? Just regular things to start conversations. Um, I was in a Starbucks writing a message, and I sat down next to this girl and she was, um, she was from Lebanon, and I'm like, my Muslim ome is going off, right? She's, she's looks distinctly like, she's from like Lebanon or Syria. She's got long black hair, and she's got Arab up on her laptop and she's taking selfies. You know, like the Saudi Arabian woman don't do that, right? It's, it's like more common to, um, you know, Lebanon and other places. So, you know, I struck up a quick conversation with her and I found out,

1:13:02 oh yeah, you know what? I, my guest was Syrian. She was from Lebanon, right? It didn't go super far. I had to go, but I said, hi. We made a connection. We made a point of contact. Um, if I ever run into her again at the coffee shop, I'll be like, Hey, I just met, we met like a couple, you know, we met like a couple months ago. Uh, how are you doing? How's school, how's work? You know, just treating them like they're normal people is important because in their eyes, they're not weird. They're normal. They're just normal people going on about their lives. Um, and then again, there are natural opportunities. And natural opportunities are like, oh, you know, we're we're neighbors, right?

1:13:47 So, uh, let's say a Muslim family moves in down the street from you. You could go, Hey, you know, uh, I've been meaning to say hi to you guys for a while. Uh, how's the neighborhood treating you? Or, hi, uh, you know, I'm Avi. Are you guys new to the neighborhood? Uh, Sal listen, Sal is not a curse word. It just means peace to you in Arabic. Um, or again, you know, Hey guys, are you Syrian? Uh, that was my guess. And, you know, maybe you could take the next step like, Hey, I'd love to have you over for dinner sometime. I can buy halal meat. Or a few of us are having a barbecue. Would you like some food? Uh, or, I recently realized, I don't know any Muslims, and I would love to get to know you and hear what you believe about. Um,

1:14:36 so listen, I invited a Turkish woman over a Turkish family. They're, they're in America. They're, they're new, right? They're, they're working on their English. And they had a daughter the age of my younger two daughters. So I said, you know, you should come over to my house, right? Like, your daughter can play with our daughters and we can get to know each other. Uh, I said, I'll cook. And they said, we can, we only eat halal meat. Um, so it would be better if we came over for coffee. First of all, I just wanna put something out there as mess annex, because you guys understand this. Halal is like their version of kosher. It's not sacrifice to an idol. I mean, you can take it as far as you want, whether it is or it isn't. Um, and again, you know,

1:15:24 listen to your conscience on that. But it's, it's only like a stumbling block to you. It's not a stumbling block to them. And uh, you know, if you go to like, maybe my cousin's restaurant might only serve halal meat. I don't know if he does or he doesn't. Not every Muslim eats halal meat. Some of them have different dietary things, just like Jews do. I only eat kosher, right? I only eat Glock Kosher. Um, we're Sephardic over Passover, like that kind of stuff. Um, I didn't get offended at what she said, listen, if it's easier for you to come over and just have coffee, the point isn't whether or not you eat my food. The point is getting to know you. The point is befriending you. The,

1:16:10 the point is having an honest and actual interaction. So use pets, man. Let's, let's say you're running into people outside the Youth pet store and you're going to work, you know, if you run into a Muslim at work, maybe the conversation could be like, Hey, we've worked together for a while. I'd love to get you more, I get to know you more. Uh, do you want to get coffee next Wednesday? Or, uh, you know, me and a friend are going hiking, you want to join us? Um, hey, listen, this is a great one. Since we're both religious people in a secular company. Um, we should get lunch sometime and compare notes. Now I find, I mean,

1:16:56 this is an aside. Um, like the gender wars are going on right now, and companies all over are just kind of enforcing this and laying down the law of you will comply with this and you will use people's pronouns and, and, and, you know, uh, you will be tolerant and accepting and all this other stuff. Your average Muslim is not on board with any of this stuff. You have more in common with them than the people around them. And instead of going like, this is our opportunity to mutually just sit there and judge sinners around us, right? Maybe we can use this time to get to know each other.

1:17:41 Listen, we're believers. If if a transgender person is in front of me, I'm going to show them the love of God. If a Muslim person is in front of me, I'm gonna show them the love of God. If a Muslim person comes to me and says, listen, I don't understand this trans stuff, it's really bothering me. This is not an opportunity for me to go, yeah, I know those sinners. It's an opportunity to go, you know what? This is how I love those people. This is how God has led me to love these people. To kind of look outside of what's going on and to look at the human condition of sinfulness. It's a great opportunity to be able to connect with them on that. You can have great discussions about these things and not come off like a judgmental person, right? Like,

1:18:27 it's more of a way to get to speak to people as opposed as a like a, you know, let's just bunker up behind here and you're Muslim and I'm Christian, and we're both gonna hate those people, right? Or we're both gonna judge those people. Um, so there are supernatural, uh, opportunities. Like how many of you have had a divine appointment, right? Divine appointment where you're like, oh, you know, I was praying and I wanted to meet a Muslim person, and then I went out to, I don't know, the coffee shop and this, this, uh, guy dressed in full Muslim garb, sat down next to me. We struck up a conversation and we had a really, uh, powerful conversation about the Lord. Now take out Muslim and put in Jewish.

1:19:13 I think everyone in this room has prayed for that right? Now. Let's flip the script back. Let's go back the other way and let's say, Hey, listen, you know what, Lord? I wanna meet Jews and Muslims and I wanna have supernatural conversations with both of them. Can you open doors for me to be able to do that? And listen, some of it might come through like soccer games with your kids, and some of it might be on a shopping trip, or you might go to the carwash or the mechanic or something like that and have an opportunity like this. These are things that we can pray for, we can ask for. Um, and when we pray for them, we have to ask God to open their eyes. We have to be prepared to walk through these doors, and we also have to build margin in our lives.

1:20:01 So what does that mean, right? Like building margin essentially is leaving, uh, space in our lives to be able to follow through on these things. So let's say you pray and you have the conversation and you meet the Muslim woman or, or man, and they tell you things about their family. You know what? One thing I've decided I wanted to do was to start opening up our home and to be intentional about leaving like a weekend a month where I can invite a family that I don't know over. And now it's shifted to, I wanna invite a Muslim family over. I want my kids to play with their kids. I want them to tell me about what they believe. I wanna tell them what I believe. I wanna, I wanna, you know, also, if they don't wanna talk about it, I don't care. I just wanna be their friend.

1:20:51 I wanna be that person. I tend to find this is my own like personal experience. That ministry to Muslims is based less on what you say and more on how you act. And they will open up to you later as opposed to now. So the more and more they get to know you, the more and more they see that you're a believer and you're actually following through on the things that you say you believe. Um, they'll be drawn to that and they'll go, listen, you know what? You're a Christian, can you explain this to me? You know, or, or listen, I have questions about, I have questions about being a believer. Can you explain this to me? Can you explain to me how you feel about Jesus? Can you explain to me, you know, this world event and why these, these believers over here are doing this? Um, I don't know. You wanna be able to like separate yourself from like Westboro Baptist, right?

1:21:40 You wanna separate yourself from being stereotyped. And the way that you do that is by engaging, um, them on comfortable territory, right? And that's what I mean by building margin into your life. So the people at Honey Badger Reform Church all decide that they want to have an event and they go into, uh, 3:00 AM Coffee right next to used pets. And you know, they are saying things like, Hey, listen, and this is more of like a group strategy, right? So let's say your congregation decides that they want to go to a restaurant or a coffee shop, that they know that there are Muslims in. So what if you all just sat there and said, you know what we are gonna go to, uh, what's it,

1:22:27 Yemen Coffee. What's that? Horrible, okay. Um, the Yemen coffee shop, I can't hear you. He knows what it is though, cuz he knows where everything is. Um, yeah. Only food, right? Right. I used to work with the Matt Rosenberg and Matt Rosenberg's. Um, key time was, uh, he, he could tell where anything was because of where the seven 11 was. He had like a supernatural anointing to know where he was because he knew where the seven 11 was. It's crazy Rabbis, am I right? It means like you, you could, you could sit there and intentionally go to some of these places and say,

1:23:13 listen, we're gonna meet at 3:00 AM Coffee, we're just gonna have coffee there and we're gonna set up shop and maybe do some work there, right? Or we're gonna set up and I'm gonna, I'm gonna meet my friend there and they're going to have Christians there, right? And I'm gonna interact with them like they're normal. We've kind of gone over some of the places where you could meet them locally. But I wanna go into conversations real quick. If you wanna have a meaningful conversation with a Muslim, you should first learn how to listen. I think that when we start wi witnessing to people, whoever they are, you start getting really excited and you want to get to like your point. You know, you wanna tell 'em about Yeshua, you wanna tell'em about Messiah,

1:24:02 but a lot of times it's better to just listen. It's better to just take it in. Don't run with your position first. Go into the conversation without having an agenda other than being the light of God in that space and allowing him to do what he wants in that area. Um, you should know the Bible. You should grow in knowing and communicating the whole council of God. Uh, this is incredibly important with Muslims because Muslims have some, like, really, like when it comes to the Bible, for instance, there's a story in the Quran about how David and Gideon and Saul were fighting a war against the Philistines, and then Saul sent David out to go kill, uh, uh, Goliath. Like Gideon is 400 years before,

1:24:51 before David. And it's not just that story. There's a whole bunch of stories that are mashed up together like that. And the more and more, you know, the Bible will have quick question and answer at the end. The more and more you know the Bible, the more and more you'll be able to say, listen, that's, that's not in the scriptural, um, purview. That's not what happened. But if you don't know the Bible, you might be like, oh wait, you know, I gotta go look it up. And I gotta, I gotta make sure, well, Gideon, who's Gideon, right? Like, you're mess, Ann, I know you know who Gideon is. Um, we should aim for clarity, not relevance, meaning that we wanna be clear about what we're saying. We shouldn't be trying so hard to like make sure that they understand that we

1:25:38 understand Islam. Um, let me be clear about that. The, the, the easiest way for you to tell them that you're a believer is to tell them that you're a believer. Don't try to like, you know, build up some kind of sympathy for Islam because what God has equipped you with is a knowledge of his word and his Holy Spirit living inside of you. And you don't have to change that identity for anyone. You don't have to change it for anyone. God's doing a work inside of you. He's empowering you to be able to reach people and being clear in that, right? Instead of trying to say, well, you know, how can I make this sympathetic to Islam? Or how can I make this sympathetic to, uh, this, these people that are in front of me? You have your own testimony.

1:26:24 You have the Holy Spirit at work inside of you. Um, don't use tracks. Don't go to like YouTube and, and, and, you know, here's some things like, oh, you know, I, I heard, uh, the, this guy who has this podcast and he talks about how to reach Muslims. Like, and I'm gonna, when next time I meet a Muslim, I'm gonna say this or I'm gonna say this, or I'm gonna, I'm gonna know how to refute this argument. Just go after the person, get to know the person. I have been witnessing to my family for 25 years. And the one thing that we cannot have a serious conversation about is Yeshua. They get upset. They go into, you know, denial. Um,

1:27:12 and for me, I just have to live it. I have to live it, and they have to see it. That's it. That's the only thing that's gonna work. And slowly but surely, over 25 years, some questions have come up. It took me 25 years for my mom to accept the fact that I didn't think I was Jewish, right? I was going to a Messianic synagogue and she's like, you, you're one of those juice. Now you're juice. Why? Why do you do that? I'm like, mom, I never said I was Jewish, right? But it opened up different conversations that we could have about what I really am, how I really view myself, what my identity really is. But that didn't happen overnight. That cultivated over time. Uh, and the last point is rest in the sovereignty of God. Um,

1:27:59 I would say in all things you should do that. But in your interactions with people who don't believe, don't go in thinking that you failed because you didn't lead them to the Lord or you failed because you didn't get to talk about Yeshua the way that you wanted to in that point. Or you failed because you went to, one of, you went to like a, a neutral third site and you didn't meet anybody, right? Or you didn't have those conversations. God's building up your faith battery and he'll put in front of you whatever he wants so that that faith can jump out of you when he calls it to, when he calls it to jump. And he'll equip you with the words and he'll give you what you need to say and he'll put you in the right situation. So resting in the sovereignty of God is essential in knowing how to talk

1:28:47 to Muslims. Um, so I just wanna thank you all for coming out. I wanna thank you for like hanging out till four 15 on a Shabbat. Um, I, uh, will have, if you didn't sign up for my newsletter, uh, I would appreciate it if you signed up for my newsletter and I have a business card if you want to email me questions or have a conversation with me, um, offline about this stuff. Thank you.