Acts 15 – A Paradigm Shift (Part 4)

0:01 Before we get into the message, as I've done now for about 18 months, I just want to remind us that there remain 59 hostages being held in captivity, 24 of whom are thought to be living. Uh, there, there's some proof of life for most of them now, um, but just to continue to impress upon each of you to, to pray for them to, uh, to keep them in your prayers and actually that the Lord would instill within them a hope, the hope of release that really he would bring them out from Gaza, just like he brought us out from Egypt so many thousands of years ago. Uh, we are continuing in our series there.

0:48 By the way, there was a lot of news this week, um, almost too much for me to even mention anything. But I feel like there's a couple things maybe I, I I could say first of all, perhaps the first time in history, ever since the creation of the world, there's a pope who might be a football fan. I'm just, I'm just playing. No, it's interesting because the, you, I don't know if you saw the news, but, uh, the Vatican, um, appointed a new pope this week. Uh, and he's from Chicago, um, served many years in Peru, uh, and, and also in, in, in the Vatican City. That's just one of the things I,

1:35 to think about all of the news. This this week is actually quite, quite full. So I I I'm going to, we'll, we'll leave it at that for now. Um, and I, I'm going to invite, I just saw my dad walk off, so he'll come back, he'll come back in a few minutes. Um, but I'll invite my dad, rabbi Marty, to come up whenever he comes back, and Rabbi Sean to join me on stage. Um, we are continuing our series on the book of Acts, uh, discussing Acts 15. And, um, uh, thank you. Yeah, he might need, might need that. Discussing Acts 15. And, uh, a few of you responded with, we have, we have a few questions, which in reality could just,

2:21 those questions we probably could spend an hour on. Um, but what we're going to do today, we're gonna, we're gonna address the questions that have been sent in first, but if you have questions like currently right now, you can use your camera and scan that you have to write out your question. Um, and, and, and we'll try to address it as we, as we get to it today. We're ready for you. Dad, I got your Bible already. So I asked Rabbi Sean to join us today, partially Rabbi Sean is, is here to serve as a moderator,

3:06 uh, to ask questions, and so on and so forth. He's gonna be really the person monitoring the questions that come in. We have a pretty full desk. I, I noticed today we should have gotten one of the, one of those long tables, and we could have gotten nine other people to sit with us. And, uh, no, I'm just playing, just playing. Um, Let's see. Rabbi Sean, you wanna kick us off with a couple questions?

3:52 Sure. Well, maybe I could just, uh, kick us off with the word of prayer, Uh, even better. Anu, I thank you. Uh, thank you for these rabbis with me and the way that they've served here faithfully over, uh, over four decades. Lord, Lord, I thank you for our Hilah, Jew and Gentile, that, uh, we come together to lift up your name and, and this chapter of, of scripture is so important to us as a community Lord. So I ask that you would deepen our understanding, our our unity, uh, are walking with one another in your reflection, in the name of Yeshua. Amen.

4:38 Amen. Well, I think a, a starting place. We've had some questions come in from you all. So thank you. Uh, some of your questions were thornier than others. So I, uh, we've maybe condensed some of the longer questions, but I'll start off with one that, uh, seems like more of what you would expect from this chapter. So what does it mean for Jews and Gentiles to be one in Messiah? So, I just wanna preface everything that we say with a couple of remarks.

5:23 First, we have to remember that we're studying scripture, and scripture has to be interpreted in context. In context means Who are the people who are talking? Who are the people who are receiving the message? Who when was this? Because times change the way people think. What was the culture at the time? Et cetera, et cetera. So the reason I say that is because many people interpret scriptures through the lens of where we are today, 2025,

6:08 through theological teachings that are prevalent today. And that's not actually the correct way to interpret scripture, in my view. Uh, so oftentimes if you interpret scripture by using modern filters, you will misinterpret, you can certainly interpret the scriptures in its context and apply, apply the principles and the truths to today's context, but don't, don't misunderstand the difference between interpretation and application.

6:54 Okay. So I just wanted to preface at least by saying that, um, uh, we've received some good questions. So I just wanted to remind us that when we, when we receive a question, questions are often asked because of today's context, not necessarily based on the context of 2,003,000 years ago when things were written, when the scriptures were written. So, anyway, go ahead. Sorry. I want to just make a little statement of introduction before we go ahead. Yeah, I, I think that's always, that's a very good thing to keep in mind if you come on Wednesday nights.

7:39 We, we, by the way, have lively conversations, um, right. Wouldn't you say they're lively conversations, um, about often these sorts of things. You know, what would've been some context con contextual elements, uh, during that time period. But I think the idea of Jews and Gentiles being won in Messiah, going back to that was the question you led with, right? Going back to the question, um, ironically, I think it's the same question today, it just may perhaps be thought of in the reverse, um, during that time period in Acts 15, I think the, the idea of what does it mean for Jews and Gentiles to be one in Messiah really was

8:26 embedded within the element of the original question in Acts, uh, 15 one, which is, unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved. In other words, gentiles who are coming into the faith have to become Jewish. That's the embedded question here. Um, Do they have to become, oh, I'm sorry. Yes. Do they have to be in, this is in the form of a statement, but do they have to be, become Jewish? So I think the original con context of the question was, Do gentiles have to become Jewish in order to, to be saved? Um, so, so let me, let me, by the way, if you have to ask someone, if the conversation is lively, then it's probably not as lively enough. But it was, it was for the benefit of everyone else.

9:12 Alright. I got a couple, couple chuckles from the lively participants. Okay, well, I, I do wanna say concerning, uh, Jews and Gentiles becoming one, first of all, there's, there was no, okay, ready? Hold onto your seat belts, fasten your seat belts. There was no church back then. Does that disturb, does that disturb you? Yeah, well, we're in Acts 13. I thought the church started in Acts two. There, there was no church back then, as we know it today. There was no pope since, since the new election of a new pope is on many the minds

9:58 of many people, there was no such thing as a pope. So today, when we say our Jews and Gen can Jews and Gentiles become one today, people start to think, wait a minute. How do, how do people in the synagogue become one with people in the church? So that was not the issue back then. So even in the context of Acts 15, it refers to the raising up again of the tabernacle of David or the Suka of David, which we find the book of Isaiah or the book of Amos. Uh, that particular quote is taken from the book of Amos chapter nine, verses 11 and 12.

10:43 And, uh, it, and it talks about, and some point in the future, it's a prophetic statement. At some point in the future, the God will raise up the tabernacle of David and, and you know, or rera, if you will. But, but the context of that an Amos is, is prophecy. And in that pro, in that prophetic word, how do we recognize when the tabernacle of David is being raised up? How we recognize it from the prophet Amos is because the Gentiles begin to join in and a relationship with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the holy one of Israel.

11:30 It doesn't say how that happens, it just says it does happen. And that's one indication of God raising up the tabernacle of David. So a little, little further earlier than that, and Isaiah, Isaiah speaks another prophetic word and says, the Lord speaking says, my house will be a house of prayer for all nations. How can that be? We don't know yet. We know that it's gonna be fulfilled in Yeshua, but Isaiah didn't know that. He's just speaking the word of the Lord saying,

12:15 my house will be a house of prayer, Not just for Israel, but for all the nations. So I want, I, I'd like to just lay that as some sort of a foundation, because those are very important, biblical and prophetic words that were given before Yeshua was born. And then later, some of these things that are written in the New Testament refer back to those prophetic words, and we find that Yeshua is fulfilling or filling full, those prophetic words. Okay. So We're still on question one. Yeah. Good. We, we've gotten some good questions

13:01 and I think so far, um, Alright, Let's, let's just shorten everything so that we can get through all the questions. No, no, I don't wanna get through all the questions. Um, no, no. I, I think I, I think if we, if We talk, what do you think about what I said? Well, I heard part of it, the other part I was monitoring the questions, but Just by the way, he's my son. This is sort of how he was when he was a kid too. Only listen to part of what I said. Yes. That's not entirely wrong. Um, sorry. As you were talking, some of the things that you were talking about were part, were notes

13:48 of interest in the questions. That's why I was, I was, I was like, oh, he's literally talking about this as the que as the people are typing the question out, um, trying to decide which direction I, I think we should. So let me just say one more thing, okay? And then you can, in that during, while I'm talking, you can think about which direction you want to go in. So in the context of the New Testament, and even the, even the Ana where the scriptures, like the scriptures I read from the prophets, it talks about Jews and Gentiles in, in each of those contexts becoming one. So it may not be the same one

14:34 in the TaNaK as maybe that we understand or it's clarified in the New Testament at the Bha Shah, but it's comparable to not the same as, but comparable to A husband and a wife becoming one. Now, we read that, we read that all the way through the New Testament, right? Especially in the Pauline or, or UL's letters. It's, it's comparable to, but not the same as a husband, a man and a woman becoming one. And, uh, of course, in Ephe, in the book of Ephesians, when UL refers to a man

15:20 and a woman becoming one, he's referring to marriage. But he says even that even the marriage, even the man and woman becoming one in a marriage is still metaphorical to the real issue at hand. That is the Messiah becomes one with his body. You and me, all of us, right? You and I become one Jews and gentiles become one and the metaphorical. But it's actually, it's, it's also P shot. It's also the simple lit literal truth that a man and a woman becomes. One. We know that from Genesis, from the book of Genesis, that a man and a woman shall become one flesh.

16:07 But AV Shaul uses it and takes it off of the page, off of the literal page just for a moment. And he says, but even that refers to the Messiah and his people becoming one. So, so a man and a woman becoming one, I think you get that if you're married, you get that. And oneness doesn't always mean peace hmmhmm, it does mean one together. You work things out, you forgive one another, et cetera, et cetera. But it doesn't mean you don't hit rough waters on occasion. So I think the same thing could be said for the Messiah and his people becoming one.

16:53 And the same thing could be said for Jews and Gentiles becoming one. So, just as a little, If, if I may, and this question may combine some of the questions, and it reflects part of my own question, because here at Baruch Hashem, there are so many cultures represented. Um, there are even variations of Jewish cultures represented. And I find that Jewish culture is different than other cultures, at least in our context, because it's the culture in which, uh, much of scripture came out of, et cetera. So in seeking to express

17:39 our various identities, um, how do we, like, how do we honor other identities that aren't Jewish? Um, and you know, I find this, this tension that, like for instance, our family is taking a trip to India. Uh, my wife is from India, and I want them to come into contact with that part of who they are. And there are believers there in our family that we're going to connect with and these things that aren't necessarily expressed here at Bur Hashem, but we still want to embrace and honor that part of our heritage. Uh, I was wondering if, if you could speak to that tension.

18:27 I couldn't speak to it, but I've been speaking the whole time. So let you, okay. Okay. In terms of India, this is an interesting, this is an interesting legend about India because one of the apostles, Thomas, the twin Toma, the twin, uh, you know, some people call him doubting Thomas. Well, let me just say that doubting part, Maybe it wasn't, maybe it's not necessary to continue to label him with doubting part because he had, he had a wonderment for just a a minute. He had a wonderment for a minute, whether this was really Yeshua or not. And, uh, you know, in that upper room

19:12 where they were all locked together, locked in, but quickly, I mean, quickly, he fell on his face before Yeshua, as soon as he saw the marks in his hands and in his feet. And he realized, and he says that he was the Lord, his God. And so, Thomas, all the, all the apostolic leaders, all the apostles were scattered through into the nations, actually, and it's legend. But I think there's some strong evidence to con to support this legend that Thomas went east and he ended up in India.

19:57 And even in India, there's a church called the Church of Thomas, because Thomas was likely there evangelizing and leading the forefathers and foremothers of your wife and her family to the Lord. So, um, just want to give that as a little note. But, but, uh, how do, how do two cultures meld? Um, I like to look at it this way. We, we, when, and there's some difficulties involved in this, but when we get together as husband and wife, let's say, and we're from two different cultures,

20:44 we learn each other's culture. We respect each other's culture when we can, we learn, sometimes have to learn respect. Um, but no one has to lose their culture. No one has to compromise their basic culture to become one. Do you understand what I'm saying? No one has to, in other words, when a male and a female get together and they become husband and wife, my wife didn't have to compromise her femaleness, and I didn't have to compromise my maleness to become one. In fact, I'm gonna say, I, I would en I

21:30 encouraged her femaleness, and she may have encouraged my maleness because one oneness, true oneness, is actually an encouragement and it become for one another, and it becomes a mutual blessing. So in a physical, literal sense, what's the mutual blessing? God bless us with children. Here's one of 'em. So, so if, if we hadn't come together in each other's identity, I mean, in Marlene's in her identity, my, in my identity, this guy wouldn't have been produced. Now, I've adopted Sean as my spiritual son

22:16 years ago, you know, God put it on my heart. When I saw Sean at a conference, we were both attending, and I, and I just knew the Lord said to me very clearly, go over to that young man, put your arm around him and pray for him. And I did. And we, and that started a road for, you know, we started going down a road together. Eventually that would lead to Sean moving here and his family moving here to Dallas and becoming part of the staff here at Pro Hashem. So, go ahead. So I, I'm gonna jump in jump because this is exactly what we did the first time through, and there was still a question, um, remaining as to the parallels between male and female

23:02 and Jew and Gentile. So let me just be, let me jump the bridge here for a moment and say what you were implying. And I think, well, at least I know Sean and I walk away with it, but I would presume that everybody here walks away with it, but maybe not that the, the, the oneness of male and female does not do away with the maleness and the femaleness in that, within that oneness as the oneness of Jews and gentiles together, does not do away with the ness and Jewish identity, Gentile ness. Yeah. That's a weird, weird way to say it. But it, we still exist.

23:48 One doesn't become the other for the, for the sake of, um, of unity or for the sake of being one. But we do affect each other. Yes, we do it, it rubs off on, on each other. So in light of that, and, and really in light of Acts 15, I, as I'm, as I'm thinking about the questions that we were digesting ahead of time, and perhaps even the ones coming through, acts 15 has these four, what we call the four prohibitions, or I don't know, maybe somebody else has a different name for them. Um, but the four being abstained for this is, it's,

24:33 it's written to, to, to Antioch. Really, it's to the Gentile brothers of Antioch, Syria, and Saia. Why, why is it to that? Is because that's where, that's where the, the outreach is happening. Uh, actually up until this point, um, goes through this whole preamble. And then he says, it seemed good to the spirit of the Lord, the koan to us, verse 28, uh, to not place on you any greater burden than these essentials. Oh, you also call 'em the four essentials, maybe that you abstain from things offered to idols. You abstain from blood, you abstain from things strangled, and you abstain from sexual immorality. And by keeping away from these things, you will do well. Uh, now this is an abstention, um,

25:24 for the sake of coming into the room, now, I'm gonna go back to the male female for the sake of coming into the marriage and being, um, partners together. Is that a safe, safe way to call it? Yeah. Let me give an example. So, so if a bachelor, if a young man has, you know, five brothers and he's, and those brothers are used to wrestling and horsing around and beating each other up and that kind of thing, that's not what you bring into a marriage with a female. So it's, there's something, there's something that you actually do give up

26:09 and sacrifice when you're married to someone of the opposite sex. And it's very important to understand that not everything that we identify with necessarily comes in to a marriage or into a relationship of Jew and Gentile. Let me give you an example. I, I used to be on the board of directors for an organization, a men's organization called The Promise Keepers. And, um, it's been years since I've been on that board of directors. But, uh, the, one of the, one of the lead guys there who became the president later on was very sensitive to the fact that I was Jewish. And so when I would go up to Denver for several days

26:56 for a board meeting, you know, he would always tell me ahead of time, we're gonna make sure there is food that you can eat. Because he knew, he knew that I don't eat trave, I don't eat pork, I don't eat shellfish, et cetera, et cetera. And so, but every time I got there, they didn't, they never had anything apart from pork, et cetera, et cetera. You know, I didn't rise up and say, you liar, you lied to me, you know, you promised me no, I just was sort of quiet. And then he would recognize at some point, you know, towards the end of the three days when we, you know,

27:41 after all the meals were served already, uh, oh my gosh, I forgot to make sure that there was, you know, food you could eat. And he says, I'll make sure next time, for sure. Next time. Oh, same thing. So, you know, we have to become sensitive to one another's needs, and we have to be able to forgive and not make a big deal. Hopefully not make too big of a deal out of something that someone gets wrong as part of growth and maturity. You, you okay? You wanna Go? I, I was going to say, and there's a lot of questions coming in, uh, certainly more than

28:28 what we can really wrap our heads around, uh, perhaps in the moment. So I just wanted to invite you, if you, if you see one that you wanna speak to, uh, don't, don't wait for me to say it. Sure. Um, but also one of the things I've, I've had this conversation with, with many of you in different contexts, there is a, a spectrum of Jewish practice, uh, what it means to be a Jew that goes from maybe just what is cultural Judaism identifying as a Jew. There are probably Jews that don't even identify as a Jew, right? And have no Jewish practice. Then there are some that just identify with being Jewish and maybe the star of David or something, all the way to the ultra Orthodox

29:13 and everything in between. And I think we've seen iterations of all of that within our community. And I think the, as we are, are seeking direction from the Lord and feeling led to, uh, observe in a particular way. There can be the sense in, in, uh, some more than others, especially that what, what I've heard from the Lord is good and right. And others should do that too. And there are offenses that come if others don't practice Judaism to the extent that we do, or that things are too Jewish or not Jewish enough. And then when we mix in non-Jews, it makes it even more complicated because are we being sensitive

30:00 to non-Jews in the context, in our context? And I know that you've seen this battle play out in a way over, over many decades and even create great tensions between parts of our community. So is is that just baked into what we do, that we have to learn to live with that, or, uh, I know there are also, and this is now a complicated question, but there are differences between our personal practices, maybe at home, and then our communal practices additionally. Yeah. Can I, I'm gonna take your question and I'm gonna reframe it. Um, in, in this way, whether you're a Jewish or not, when you come to faith in Yeshua,

30:49 this, I'm reframing your question, how do you become a more mature believer and what are those steps? And, and in the west, we all like a 12 step program or a three step program, or five ways to be a great leader, or, or these are the kind of books that are top seller books. Um, unfortunately, I don't think that's the way life is, uh, almost ever. Um, so in terms of becoming a more mature believer, so now I'm reframing your question even a little bit further. Does that mean in the case here in Acts 15 for Gentiles, you're coming into the faith.

31:35 Does that mean to become a more mature believer that you have to practice some level of Judaism beyond these four things that are listed? In other words, do you start with these four and then you become a more mature believer by practicing 613 others? That's a good question. Um, and, and I think this is where I think we stay in the marriage analogy, because I actually think, at least in my own personal experience being married, um, I can tell you this is what I can say. I've been married, it'll be, it'll be 13 years next month, also tough.

32:21 Thank you. But I can tell you a hundred percent that where we were at year one is not where we were in year four is not where we were in year 5, 8, 12. All of those are different. Now, did I become more, Now here's, here's, here's where I think it becomes very applicable in those 13 years, almost 13 years, have I become more feminine? Have I become more like Britney so that we can be one? I actually don't think that's true either. Have I become more male? Sometimes have I become perhaps a little bit sensitive as to

33:10 there are certain issues that I just don't pick a fight on. I also will say that is also true, but those have all learned, I've learned those as growing together, living together with my wife over, over a 13 year period. We haven't forsaken who we are in terms of male and female. And, and I think the same could be said in terms of Jew and Gentile, um, which in my case doesn't apply actually. Um, but you look like you have a Yeah, if I could poke on this again. Yeah, poke, poke. So if I, uh, in my marriage with Val and, uh, alright, she's not in the room so I could say this.

33:55 That's right. She's helping with the sisterhood. You, you can say anything now. Okay. She, she and my wife are probably off together and, uh, not listening. So I'm gonna be absurd for a second. But if I began wearing dresses, this would be problematic in our marriage. Right? Um, however, if a gentile began taking on Jewish practices, not so much, right? That's acceptable. Is is there a line here where it becomes unacceptable or taking on too much of the other? So, so historically, Sean, um, if, if someone either Jewish or Gentile in the church, believers in the church were to take on any Jewish practices, they would be condemned as heretics.

34:44 How did that happen? I mean, the people who started this whole thing were Jews who were traditional Jews for the most part. Maybe some more traditional, some less. Um, as you were saying, as somebody, one of you guys were saying, there's a variety of Judaisms, uh, you know, but now in the 2025, if someone walks into a church, somebody Jewish, let's say, walks into a church and is wearing a kippah, maybe even seat seat fringes, peop some people may look at them

35:30 in a strange manner, but others have been acquainted now with some of these things and, and you would be accepted. So is it, does it become imperative for gentiles who have come to Yeshua, the Jewish Messiah, to begin taking on Jewish practices in order to mature in the faith? My my simple answer is no. Um, and, and that's one of the, that's one of the flows through the book of Acts in that specific focus in Acts 15.

36:16 So Ari asked about the, the four prohibitions or the four essentials, You know, apart from a few people, maybe in this congregation, maybe in a few other Messian congregations. Nobody knows about that. No, you know, nobody knows about that. I mean, it would be helpful if everyone knew about it. These four essentials. Some people, um, liken those four essentials to what is called the Noki laws, you know, the what, what God pronounced to Noah in terms of things that were essential, uh, which, which is, has grown over tradition, over history. But these essentials actually,

37:03 I think already pointed that this out. One of the previous weeks that we were speaking these essentials, all these essentials can be found in the, in the book of Leviticus. It's actually in this week's store portion. Okay, so there you go. So it's good that we're talking about it. We make the thing relevant. Actually, those four that are found in this week's store portion, uh, in, in a remote, um, and maybe in Decat, I can't remember, it's Leviticus 1718, I think. Yeah, all of them, they, they, uh, have a, a, a caveat that says that the outsider who dwells among you shouldn't do these things.

37:50 And, um, but it, it's, it, it then gives a qualification to Israel. If you do any of these things, you'll be vomited out of the land, just like the Canaanites were ahead of you Through any, any of the Sins, any of these, any of these, any of any of these four violations? Yeah, I, the four that we see in Acts 15, um, Not doing the essentials, but violating the essentials, Right? If you violate those essentials, and really, and you and I had this conversation one other week and, and also this week, but a lot of it has to do with, um,

38:36 With worshiping other gods serving, maybe I could call it serving other gods. Well, the, these four mentions can all be linked to temple, not Jewish temple, pagan temple worship. So the, to me, the essential all boils down to, because Jews and Gentiles are different today than they were back then. Back then, when you said Gentile, you were talking about pagans. Now you say Gentile, they can be Christians and Gentile. So you have to distinguish and understand that, um, the gentiles that were coming into the body of the Messiah and these Jewish apostles that were making rulings,

39:23 they were talking about pagans coming into the faith. And you have to do these essentials and make a break with paganism, make a break with paganism. And these essentials are important. Now, if you look through church history, and you get up to the fourth century when, uh, Constantine became the emperor of Rome, Constantine was a pagan, and he, you know, he had a vision and he became a Christian, just like that. His mother already had a similar thing happen to her, but he went ahead because he was emperor

40:09 and forced everyone in his empire to become Christians, even if they had no clue what that meant. So this, this would be the equivalent of forcing everyone to become a man or a woman, maybe. Yeah. But, but the equivalent is, uh, I mean, the, the idea is now when we look at these four essentials, no one, no, no, I would, I would feel safe to say that 99% of the, of the gentile world that were forced into Christianity had no clue about these essentials. No clue. So today we're talking about a whole different scheme, a whole different group.

40:56 And, and we have to be able to apply through our understanding of what we're dealing with today. So my, the bottom line for me, the bottom line for me is the decision that was made at Acts 15 is still in effect today. And it did not require Jewish practice. So people will say, right in the middle of the, right, in the middle of Acts 15, it says, but remember, you know, Moses is still taught in the synagogues, and people latch, some people latch onto that and say, see, you are supposed to become Jewish. But you have to remember, there were no churches around. You couldn't just go to your Bible.

41:42 You couldn't go to your friendly church on the corner and hear the word of God. Genesis to revelation there. It wasn't happening. If I can interject though, because, uh, in 15, there are two reiterations where there's, it's said, and then it's restated to the Gentiles, and that part isn't in there about, uh, yeah, that's Moses. Moses is read in the synagogue, in the Gentile context, only among the council, Only among the council was an in-house talk. But look, because part of the threat, part of the threat that was apparent to the Jewish followers of Yeshua, and it was a threat. Can you believe it was a threat for Gentiles to come into the body of Messiah? Especially if they, if they remained uncircumcised and did not convert to Judaism, conversion

42:30 may have been okay, a normal kind of thing if someone wanted to convert for whatever reason. But non-conversation was a more difficult and scary proposition. Now, I'm taking you back 2000 years. We, you know, through history that changed, uh, it, it, the inverse took place. You know, Jews had to convert to Christianity later and were forced not to circumcise their sons. Um, but anyway, all they can say is, you know, when, um, in Acts chapter 10, when Peter spoke to Cornelius and his family, halfway between his preaching,

43:17 never even mentioning Jewish tradition, the Holy Spirit fell on, on Cornelius and his household, apart from Jewish, anything apart from Jewish traditions, except for, so let, let me play the other side here for just a moment. Yeah, please. Th that moment may have been apart, but they were already attached to the synagogue. Yes. They, they were God fearers and, and so they already perhaps were practicing certain things that, that were Jewish practices. That's true. Um, were were they circumcised? No, that's the main practice that we're talking about here. So, so in terms of, so, uh, okay, so really we're saying don't circumcised No,

44:06 no, we're not saying don't circumcise the people who came, like in the book of Galatians to say that Gentiles had to be circumcised. So this, the thing is, do be circumcised, and that's the only way you can really have a firm position in the body of the Messiah if you are circumcised. And so I think the threat against the Jews in saying, Hey, Moses is taught in the synagogues. We, we see the, we see the revelation of that, or we see the furtherance of that in Acts chapter 21, when Paul and his, um, crowd comes to Jerusalem, and likely James

44:52 says, Hey, hey, buddy. Hey Paul. There's a rumor going around now all of Jerusalem among the believers that you're teaching Jews not to circumcise their sons and not to keep the Torah. And he says, do this to prove them wrong. So James was already assuming that Paul continued to observe Jewish practice and was not teaching Jewish people to dece to desist from circumcision. And so Paul complied with James, he went into the temple, et cetera, shaved his head off.

45:38 And, uh, in other words, he was making a statement that, Hey, I have been consistently Jewish and I am not teaching the Gentiles to be Jewish. I'm just teaching them to come to Yeshua. So there's a lot bigger story than that. But I mean, I'm trying to answer your, specifically answer your question. You mean the, how do they mature as believers? Yes. Uh, so, so yes, Paul's rights in Galatians. We, we have a tutor. The tutor is the Torah. But when faith comes in, Yeshua, we no longer need the tutor. And so people say, okay, now is the age of grace.

46:24 The age of law is over. Wait a minute, not so fast. Because as soon as you walk apart from faith, the tutor comes right back in immediately. Isn't that true? Hey, soon as you run a red light, soon as you run a red light, you're looking in your rear room mirror to make sure there's no police following you. Is that true? Yes, that's true. So earlier on, you, you spoke about the importance of the context. We are not in this context. So, uh, I'll just give you a for instance of one thing I've observed that seemed problematic in light of our mission, uh, which I think is part of

47:12 our context, an important part. Um, so there was a particular gentleman, not from a Jewish background, but really became enamored with Jewish practice, um, would wear I think what we affectionately call belt loop, seat seat. Um, and it bothered me because he would maybe go to McDonald's right? With seat seat. And it's a confusing thing for those observing. And, uh, this gentleman also wanted to, uh, pursue circumcision. I tried to urge him that it wasn't necessary, uh, but that didn't, uh, sway. Sway, yeah. Um, can you maybe speak to how our context plays, at least for us

48:00 as a community, how it plays into the way that we approach apraxia as Jews and Gentiles? I can speak again, but No, keep going. I, okay. I'm enjoying it. Okay. Um, I, I'll jump in. I think it's a particular issue that we face in the mess. Synagogues, gentiles come here to begin with because something has stirred in their hearts. They either want to find out more about j the Jewish roots of their faith, or they want to adhere more to Jewish practices. When, when that becomes person's goal. I don't care if Jewish or Gentile, you know, I mean,

48:45 the question is what practices do you actually keep? What practices don't matter that much? I mean, Rob Shaul says, if you break one law, you've broken the whole thing. So, so what do you actually, what do you actually, you you're pick choosing and picking what you want. Circumcision, seed, seed, et cetera. The problem is you confuse other people. You may be a little confused yourselves, but you confuse other people. What Sean said is exactly right, and it's very confusing if you wear a, into a non-kosher restaurant that's not open on Shabbat because they're kosher. But if you walk in any restaurant that's non-kosher

49:32 and you are wearing cheat seat and a kipa, it's totally confusing, totally confusing to anyone who's there. And it's confusing to anyone who's, anyway, the greater understanding is that when you adorn Jewish attire, kippah cc, you want to get circumcised because God ordered Israel to be circumcised. Um, it comes with a full package. It doesn't just, you just don't pick it out of, you know, you don't pick it out of the package and say, this is the one, this is what I want to do. I want to identify with this, but I'm gonna do it with a keep sii, or I want to get circumcised.

50:19 It comes with a full package. If you're in a community where is worn all the time, where a kipa is worn all the time, you are supported in your community to do that. When you're in a community where that's not true, you're always doing it yourself. And so you can, I mean, that's it. People sometimes do that, but it's like you are isolated and you've, and sometimes you become stronger in that drive. Uh, but I will say there's it, it's not, I don't believe that the scripture says you cannot do these things. It says you cannot do these things

51:07 and be dependent for, for your salvation or for growing in Yeshua. That's, it doesn't say you can't do these things. It says you, like in the book of Galatians, you read the book of Galatians. Paul is very harsh on the people there who might be given to accept the teaching that you need to be circumcised and you need to practice Jewish practices in order to be part of Yeshua's body. He's very harsh on those people. And the reason he's harsh is because the, of the decision in Acts 15, you don't need to be circumcised to experience God's salvation.

51:56 God's salvation is also a package many churches teach. All you need to do is pray prayer of salvation, and you're done. No, pray the prayer. It's a good thing, but it's part of a package. You continually submit your heart to the Lord, to the word of God, and you begin to grow. You're around other people who are believers and, and iron sharpens iron, and you, and you encourage one another. Uh, so we've had people here at Ham who are not Jewish, who've taken on this desire either to be Jewish or to adorn Jewish things. And un it's very sad.

52:43 But we, we've, we've seen many times over, not always, but we've seen many times over those people begin to view Bur Hashem as a halfway house. We're just a halfway house. So they were so excited to find us and to meet us, and they were completely overjoyed and content to be here until they outgrew what I'm talking about. They outgrew bur Hashem and, and walking in a community that is, um, identified Jewishly in terms of practice, but is a mixture of Jews and Gentiles together. They, they left em, went to the synagogue, gave up Yeshua,

53:31 gave up Yeshua for Judaism so they could be part of the Jewish community. And that's what, that's why Raul is so upset in the book of Galatians. That's, it's, it's like, Hey, Moses is taught in the synagogues all the time. Fine, you wanna learn more about Moses. I mean, we teach about Moses, but, but back then, you didn't have too many congregations like this. In fact, you didn't have any. Antioch was the first of his kind, first of its kind, the only of its kind at the, at that time in history. So you wanna learn more, you can go to the synagogue, but that's why em,

54:18 we consider em a messianic synagogue because we do teach Moses, we do teach moha. We do go through the Torah every Shabbat. And, uh, we also walk in the light of Yeshua in the, and so this is a unique combination. And even though we have grown and there may be hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of Jewish believers now, um, it's still a rarity, still a rar. Let's say there's a million Jewish believers now. We are a speck. We are a speck on the whole of the body of Messiah. We could easily say there are 2 billion,

55:07 maybe more believers alive today. 1 million. It's a speck out of 2 billion. Those numbers are too big for most people to think about. But we're a speck small. But I will say this, God has anointed the Messianic Jewish community and the resurrection of the Messianic Jews and the coming together of Jews and Gentiles have been anointed because our little community, not em, just the, you know, the worldwide messianic community, we have made more of an impact on the body of Messiah. Way more than our size dictates way more.

55:53 I, I don't know. Do you guys agree? I do. I agree with myself. I, I, I, Since, since we're talking about circumcision, a couple of the questions are, are the same, which is, what do you do about Passover and the passage and Exodus that says you have to be circumcised to celebrate Passover? Me? What do I, what, what do I do? I I apply it today. That was, remember when that, when that was written in Exodus chapter 12? That was 3,500 years ago, right? So people, you know, first of all, the Torah, and I hope you understand this, the Bible, look at this book.

56:38 This is my Bible. It's huge. I don't carry it around as much as I used to, 'cause it's weighs so much. But this bible genesis to Exodus, uh, genesis to revelation is the word of God for everyone, right? For everyone. But let me give you a secondary, um, view of this Bible. This is the Jewish community's diary. This is our family diary. When we open the pages, we can read it and we can, you know, we get it sometimes when people who are not part of the Jewish community opened this book.

57:26 The interpretation is quite different. And that what, what is our diary? I mean, everything is exposed in the Bible about the Jewish community, the good, the bad, and the ugly, everything. And everybody gets to read it. It's embarrassing when we put it in the context of our family diary. It's embarrassing when we put it in the context of the word of God. It's very encouraging. 'cause we're, it's full of exhortations and full of the word, the prophetic word that tells us what's gonna come, things to come. So I, so I, I wanna make sure that we understand context. And you know what, we understand that there's no, there's no

58:16 prohibition against circumcision for men, except there's a prohibition. If you think circumcision will save you, there's, there's a prohibition for that. Yeah. Salvation comes by faith, by grace through faith, not by grace through circumcision. So if I can interject, and then I'm gonna kick it to Rabbi Ari here. So I'm gonna read a verse from Acts 15. Judah and Silas prophets themselves encourage the brothers and sisters with a long message and strengthen them. So I realize we're, uh, probably at about, uh, we're, We're on that long message. Uh, I'll, I'll let you feel with,

59:01 feel out when that should end. Um, but I just wanted to maybe kick it back to you to, uh, to respond to anything in this form or something on your heart, or the question that we were just discussing. So, I, I, I want to go back to, we had, we had this discussion this week, and, and I've mentioned it before, uh, in acts, but I don't know that I've mentioned it in Acts 15. Um, the idea, lemme lemme frame it this way. The central tenet of Judaism, the, the, the element upon which all of the Torah is based,

59:47 and the element upon which our entire existence is, is based is the Shema. The Shema says hero, Israel. The Lord is our God. The Lord is one. So this is a fascinating argument to unpack, But Paul, uh, there's a commentator who, who uses who, who unpacks it this way. But Paul's writing of the book of Romans unpacks the oneness of God and how we are to continue to live together as Jews and Gentiles.

1:00:32 And what does that look like? Um, now I'm gonna keep going and, and go a little bit further. Uh, if you've been through the new members class, you've heard me, you've heard me share it most likely 'cause I I teach it almost every new members class. But there is a symbiotic relationship, which I, I find, um, present in, in Romans chapter 11 in particular, uh, where gentiles have a particular role and Jews have a particular role, and together they grow. Now, if one begins to identify as the other, or vice versa, if you will, what it does is it breaks the symbiotic cycle.

1:01:17 In other words, it begins to diminish instead of increase. Um, and so this is, this is where I'll, I'll come back to the Shama. If God is one. Lemme, lemme put it a different way. If the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the God of creation and the God of everything, then he's God of both the Jews as they are, and the gentiles as they are. In other words, those who turn to him, both Jews and Gentiles are the remnants. I I call it remnant or, or those who have turned to him from among their particular nation,

1:02:05 But for them to turn to him. If, if we talk about it, because our context is, is more focused here in, in 15 is more focused on Gentiles turning to faith in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. If they turn to him and become Jews, then no longer is he the God of Gentiles. He's now only the God of Jews. If that's a necessity, does that, does my argument, makes, does, I know it's confusing, but lemme say it again. If God is the God of Jews and Gentiles, and yet a Gentile who comes to faith has to become Jewish, then he's not the God of Gentiles. He's really, in fact, only the God of Jews.

1:02:50 And if he's only the God of Jews, then he is number one, not the God of everything. And number two, he's not one. Why is he not one? Because he is the God of only the Jews and not the Gentiles. Therefore, there must be a second, A second God, a second God. So if the Shema is true that God is one, then it must be true that those who turn in faith to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob come to come to that conclusion or come to that point through trust in what the Lord, uh, is doing and mature as such.

1:03:40 And in other words, they do not mature into the other. I don't know if, I don't know if I can be much clearer than that. Okay? I'd like to carry a little bit further. Okay? Um, so in the book of Ephesians, specifically, chapters two and three is talking focused on Jews and Gentiles coming together. This for you to read. I I don't have time to read the whole thing, uh, or to go back in our burham archives. 'cause I taught through the book of Ephesians many years ago, if you'd like to listen to that. So specifically, chapters two and three are focused on Jews

1:04:27 and Gentiles becoming one in chapter four. Soon as he starts in chapter four, that's, and probably why there's a chapter break not created by AV Shaul, but created later on in history. Uh, he, he, he said, he's talking about Jews and Gentiles becoming one faith, and there's a specialness about it. And there is something supernatural that is released, kind of like an explosion released when Jews and Gentiles are, have come together in mutual blessing. And he says, be diligent to preserve the unity of the spirit and the bond of peace. Chapter four, verse three. And then he goes on and he says,

1:05:13 because there is one body, one spirit, just as also you were called in one hope Of your calling. There is one Lord, one faith, one immersion, one God, one father of all who is over all and through all, and in all. So this is the, the end of Ari's argument that he's making from the Shema. Paul takes that to the point and just declares simply, there are not two gods.

1:05:58 There's a God who is overall, and there's only one body in the Messiah, Jews and Gentiles together. Now, let me point out, and I agree with Sean, we must be drawing near to the end. Let me point out that the Torah was not given as a law where we can pick and choose laws. The Torah was given to the nation of Israel as the nation of Israel's, shall I say, constitution, the nation of Israel was created not through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, that that's our source. Those are our fathers. That's where we come from.

1:06:45 But the nation itself was birthed out of Egypt as a nation. And we were delivered out of Egypt as a nation. We were required to prove that we were part of that nation by the blood of the lamb, right? All those who had the applied the blood of the lamb to their homes, to their doorposts and their lentil, The angel of destruction, the angel of death passed over their homes. And the those who remained were birthed as a nation, birthed as a nation. The nation at this point was without the Torah.

1:07:35 Historically, chronologically speaking, the nation that was birthed was without a Torah. How did they become a nation? They had to exercise faith by applying the blood of the lamb to their homes. And they escaped by the power of God over all the, all the gods of Egypt. They escaped and they were a nation. And it took three months as a nation before God gave the Torah, right? So God gave the Torah, why? Because the nation didn't know. We didn't know how to treat one another. We didn't know how to exercise our faith as a,

1:08:21 as a community, as a whole nation. Some people did certain things, some people did other things. But these, let's say the 10 Commandments, they, they were given to the people of Israel on Mount Sinai to govern the people and how we believe in God and how we treat one another. That's the Torah. That's the Torah. What happens? What happens when you know, somebody comes to Yeshua and says, A a Lord? Which one of the, which one of the commandments are the, are the most important to keep?

1:09:09 How does Yeshua respond? He responds this way. You shall love the Lord God with all of your heart, your soul, and your strength, the Shema. And just like it, he says, you shall love one another even as you love yourself from Leviticus, a direct quote from Leviticus, also the Torah portion. Yeah. So this week's Torah portion. So he, if you wanna know the essentials that you have to keep of the Torah, these are the two essentials. Everybody, Jews, gentiles, everybody. What are the, what are the, what are the laws that I need to keep that are in the Torah? Love God with all of your heart, soul, and strength.

1:09:58 Love your neighbor as yourself. These are the two pillars of the Torah. And you know, when, when in his, historically at Hamman, mostly when people who are not Jewish come to me and say, what parts of the Torah should I keep? Sometimes Jewish people? What parts of the Torah should I keep? We're in a messianic synagogue now. What should I keep? And I say this, love the Lord your God with all of your hearts soul and your strength and love one another as you love yourself. This is the summation of the Torah. And when you fulfill these two things, come back to me and I'll give you some more. Right?

1:10:49 That, That's a pretty, that that might be the place to wrap up. Um, for the sake of time, though, I have a few other things I would like to say, but You're the boss. But that was a really good, that was a really good, uh, summation. Let me, maybe if I can just add on just a couple little things that, that perhaps may or may not be in the back of your mind. Um, coming to faith in Yeshua doesn't make you Jewish, doesn't make you have Jewish heritage. Let me just like put that one behind us, but Could I interrupt you for a second? Sure. That's what it doesn't do. What it does do. Sure. What it does do as Gentiles is it transfers you

1:11:36 from paganism into the household of faith. It transfers you. In the Ephesians chapter two, Paul says that very specifically, he says to the Gentiles, you who were far off without hope in the world by the blood of Yeshua. And now you've been brought near into the commonwealth of Israel. It, I I know this is in a couple different places. Maybe it's in that same context, but it makes you co-heirs. Co-heirs. Yeah. You inherit, you inherit the same thing. The Jews inherit salvation and Yeshua. I mean, that's the biggest one. That's the biggest part of it.

1:12:24 That's the essential. That's the essential part. Yeah. I mean, when, when everybody says there's something, if you can boil something down to the essential, like that's the thing you don't wanna ever get rid of. That's the essential for all of us, Jews or Gentiles. Um, I I, yeah. We could keep, we could keep talking for another hour. I think we should wrap it up. Uh, and by and by wrap it up, I think we should be done. And I see that there's a question that someone asked, said, uh, why did Paul have No, no, don't talk, don't talk about that one yet. Okay. That's, that's coming in the future. Okay. Nevermind. For those of you, there's, there's a question about Acts 16, about Timothy. That's after Acts 15 Coming. So it's coming soon to a synagogue near you. No.

1:13:13 Um, uh, may the Lord bless you and keep you. May the Lord make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you. May the Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace.

1:14:07 In the name of our Messiah, Yeshua.